Pitch and Half Wedges

[DeanS]

Had a similar lesson and now play a knock down shot, which gives me more stopping power and greater accuracy. I didn't see any mention of this shot so I'm curious is anyone else doing this.

[Leftygolfer]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I guess the point of my post wasn't to debate whether on average a 60 yard shot ends up closer than an average 100 yard shot for most players (or whether a truly bad shot for those players is one that finishes outside 20 feet or misses the green entirely). To say that the shorter shot is always the better play is just not correct. Certainly it's not correct for every player on every hole. To say this a weakness is correct - it sounds like someone needs to work on his full SW shots.

One point I was trying to make is that just getting to 60 yards, or even to 100 yards, is not really an option for probably 90% (or higher) of the golfers out there (likely closer to 99% in this forum based on 300 yard driver hater threads) unless it's a 300 yard hole. So whether it's an advantage to be hitting into a hard green from 60 yards versus 100 yards isn't my point. For most amateurs that choice is on their 3rd shot into a par 4. For players at your level, the 3rd shot is either a putt or a chip/pitch.

The reason for debating this is because of the myth of scoring better with a full shot in.  It is one thing you here over and over by people/pros but the truth is you can hit it closer the closer you are to the hole.  There are reasons to not challenge the hole b/c of lack of skill or course managment but just to lay back for no other reason is going to hurt your score over the long run.

I put myself in really bad places right now so I do often have to have this sort of a shot to try and make a par the hard way.  But I do remember when my game was more predictable I loved the opportunity to get into this range on par 5s.  I'm not a huge hitter so on 4s I rarely can get inside of 100 yards and rarely do I see a 4 that is less than 350.

I am biased towards these shots.  It is something I can always count on regardless how bad I'm swinging it.  I know I can do two things right now.  I can putt and I have a nice wedge game.  I do have a weakness, it is my full swing.

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by DeanS

Had a similar lesson and now play a knock down shot, which gives me more stopping power and greater accuracy. I didn't see any mention of this shot so I'm curious is anyone else doing this.

im starting to hit knockdowns with my pitch and 9 from around 100-120 and today i greened two particular shots with those two clubs as knockdowns. i tried very hard today at the range before my round to hit a knockdown wedge from around 80-90some yards and i greened it. (it felt like i bladed it so it wasnt particularly satisfactory for me) but the knockdown shot has been huge for me since i changed to my proper grip size.

so in short, yes. yes there is another knockdown hitter haha

[BugDude]

I too hit a lot of knockdown shots.  I enjoy them and feel I am able to be more precise with them.

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by BugDude

I too hit a lot of knockdown shots.  I enjoy them and feel I am able to be more precise with them.

i seem to compress the ball very well when i hit knockdowns and shots usually go just as far. easy to control distance as well. but i have found that my nippon 950gh (softer tip flex) might be making normal shots a little higher than id like and that my knockdowns are just about where normal shots should be? maybe? idk but i wont be changing anything just yet. no need now that im hitting more consistently

[inthecup]

I have been using partial or half shots all the way down to 7 iron this year.  They tend to have a lower ball flight and stop quickly.  It is much easier to control and get compressive contact.

My 1/2 shots are good from 60 to 120 yards.  At this point I have groved one partial swing that I use on several clubs.  Each club has a predictable distance.

If you don't have this shot in the bag I would work on it.  It is very useful.

[handlez42]

im starting to notice the knockdown/partial swing shots are very useful. but when is an actual full swing needed? elevated greens as well as relatively flat shots?

i was on a par 5, had to drop because my 3 wood didnt clear the large pond. theres about 100 yards of turf just past the water and the drop area is on its own just next to the fairway on the other side of the cart path. so roughly 105 or 110 out. i tried i knockdown pitch and it didnt seem to get there. i felt as if i may have hit it a little higher than my swing was planning on. ive been in that DZ (unfortunately) and know a pitching wedge is the right shot i guess im just unsure of it because knockdowns tend to play shorter for me, and possibly the flat fairway to green may have messed with my eyes distance wise.

i probly shouldve hit a full shot and taken advantage of the much larger green but the knockdown was working so well in my first round actually trying it. especially when only hit maybe 10 or 12 of them as practice for the first time trying it at the range.

but anything on when the full shot might be the best choice? i figured probly on a tight pin placement at least or something involving a hazard

[DeanS]

Originally Posted by inthecup

My 1/2 shots are good from 60 to 120 yards.  At this point I have groved one partial swing that I use on several clubs.  Each club has a predictable distance.

Nice, this what I want to do next, if I get that consistency its going to save me some strokes around the green. Also tried this shot with the ball lying down in the rough which was a complete disaster, club twisted open and I bladed it left. Switting up in the rough worked ok. Not the shot I would want to use over a bunker.

[BugDude]

Originally Posted by handlez42

im starting to notice the knockdown/partial swing shots are very useful. but when is an actual full swing needed? elevated greens as well as relatively flat shots?

i was on a par 5, had to drop because my 3 wood didnt clear the large pond. theres about 100 yards of turf just past the water and the drop area is on its own just next to the fairway on the other side of the cart path. so roughly 105 or 110 out. i tried i knockdown pitch and it didnt seem to get there. i felt as if i may have hit it a little higher than my swing was planning on. ive been in that DZ (unfortunately) and know a pitching wedge is the right shot i guess im just unsure of it because knockdowns tend to play shorter for me, and possibly the flat fairway to green may have messed with my eyes distance wise.

i probly shouldve hit a full shot and taken advantage of the much larger green but the knockdown was working so well in my first round actually trying it. especially when only hit maybe 10 or 12 of them as practice for the first time trying it at the range.

but anything on when the full shot might be the best choice? i figured probly on a tight pin placement at least or something involving a hazard

My opinion, if you have a full shot distance and a good lie with no other obstacles to contend with (wind, green sloping towards you a lot, side hill lie, etc.) then I'd play the full shot.  Sometimes when I have a standard full shot distance I'll hit a knockdown when I have a back left pin placement and I'm trying to skip the ball back to it, I'm hitting into the wind, have a side-hill lie, etc.  For me, hitting a knockdown from a full distance necessitates one more club.  I really like knockdowns inside of 110 yards (my stock PW distance).  I hit a LOT of "knockdown" chip shots around the green that check hard and then roll softly to the hole.

[inthehole]

guys - I like the sounds of the knockdown shot ... but as a first year player, it likely may be out of my ability at this point.     Although I would like to practice it ... can somebody describe the technique or where I can get some info on the 100 yard and in knockdown 9i shot & specifically, how can you keep a wedge shot LOW ??     A side note ... I was at a pro tournament this year & was surprised how low they hit their wedge shots - I remember thinking to myself, man, I can hit my wedges way higher than these guys ... after reading this thread, I'm certain they all were hitting low knock down shots for greater accuracy than skying it like I do.   Thx

[inthehole]

bump

[indybuckeyefan]

martin hall showed this on last weeks "school of golf"

ball back in stance and low follow through,hands in front of clubhead all the way

edited to change "ball forward" to "back in stance"

[BugDude]

I went to several rounds of The Greenbrier Classic in WV and I also noticed how low the pros hit all of their irons, especially wedge shots.

Find the right ball position in your stance at the range.  Sometimes, if you get it too far back, it can actually cause you to come in steep and pop it up higher.  You just have to find the right position.  Also try variations of open stance and closed stance.  On shots inside of 50 yards, I like a slightly open stance.  It is a flatter shallower swing and try to hold the clubface square to the target as long as you can through and after impact.  Try various wedges too.  Pitch, Gap, and Sand can all be played low.  Weight forward, less wristy, abbreviated back swing and followthrough.  Don't let your hands and forearms roll over.

Try hitting low pitch and chip shots around the green with a sand wedge and then work your way out to longer distances and longer clubs.  You'll get the feel for it.  Think of it like a long chip shot.

[inthehole]

Thanks - appreciate the info ...  now I have something to work on !

Originally Posted by BugDude

I went to several rounds of The Greenbrier Classic in WV and I also noticed how low the pros hit all of their irons, especially wedge shots.

Find the right ball position in your stance at the range.  Sometimes, if you get it too far back, it can actually cause you to come in steep and pop it up higher.  You just have to find the right position.  Also try variations of open stance and closed stance.  On shots inside of 50 yards, I like a slightly open stance.  It is a flatter shallower swing and try to hold the clubface square to the target as long as you can through and after impact.  Try various wedges too.  Pitch, Gap, and Sand can all be played low.  Weight forward, less wristy, abbreviated back swing and followthrough.  Don't let your hands and forearms roll over.

Try hitting low pitch and chip shots around the green with a sand wedge and then work your way out to longer distances and longer clubs.  You'll get the feel for it.  Think of it like a long chip shot.

[saevel25]

i usually play the knock down when i am into a heavy wind, because i can keep it low and take alot of side spin off the ball, so it holds up into that wind pretty good.

Today i had to hit a knockdown shot from about 65 yards, i had to keep the ball under a tree limb, it turned out great. Its a good shot to have in the arsenal.

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by BugDude

My opinion, if you have a full shot distance and a good lie with no other obstacles to contend with (wind, green sloping towards you a lot, side hill lie, etc.) then I'd play the full shot.  Sometimes when I have a standard full shot distance I'll hit a knockdown when I have a back left pin placement and I'm trying to skip the ball back to it, I'm hitting into the wind, have a side-hill lie, etc.  For me, hitting a knockdown from a full distance necessitates one more club.  I really like knockdowns inside of 110 yards (my stock PW distance).  I hit a LOT of "knockdown" chip shots around the green that check hard and then roll softly to the hole.

I recently hit a knocdown 9 from about 115-120. it couldve very well been how the hole played as to why the knockdown worked better..but at the time i tried it, it was my best shot of the day.

Originally Posted by inthehole

guys - I like the sounds of the knockdown shot ... but as a first year player, it likely may be out of my ability at this point.     Although I would like to practice it ... can somebody describe the technique or where I can get some info on the 100 yard and in knockdown 9i shot & specifically, how can you keep a wedge shot LOW ??     A side note ... I was at a pro tournament this year & was surprised how low they hit their wedge shots - I remember thinking to myself, man, I can hit my wedges way higher than these guys ... after reading this thread, I'm certain they all were hitting low knock down shots for greater accuracy than skying it like I do.   Thx

dont think that way. ive been trying to be self taught. (tourstriker) hitting knockdowns is all in the "release" of your wrist angle. ive only learned because i worked on my contact and compression and have used feel as a way to do a knockdown.

watch tour pros do pitch shots. they lean the grip end forward, and when then follow through the shot they hold the angle they create in their wrist. allows them to get steeper on shots and create more spin in shorter distances.

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by inthehole

guys - I like the sounds of the knockdown shot ... but as a first year player, it likely may be out of my ability at this point.     Although I would like to practice it ... can somebody describe the technique or where I can get some info on the 100 yard and in knockdown 9i shot & specifically, how can you keep a wedge shot LOW ??     A side note ... I was at a pro tournament this year & was surprised how low they hit their wedge shots - I remember thinking to myself, man, I can hit my wedges way higher than these guys ... after reading this thread, I'm certain they all were hitting low knock down shots for greater accuracy than skying it like I do.   Thx

and i also have only been playing for a year. love this game though

[BugDude]

Start with trying to hit low sand wedge chip shots from 10 yards from the hole around the green that take one hop and stop.  Once you can do that, then the longer shots are the same technique just a little longer and harder version of the same swing.  You can get a lot more practice in with the short shots to get a feel for the technique.  Use a soft cover golf ball such as a Titleist Pro V1 or similar soft cover ball to get the effect.  If you try it with an old hard cover ball, you'll never get the spin on the short shots.  I've got a bucket full of old soft cover balls that aren't really fit for play anymore but great for practice chipping.