Evidently Jack Nicklaus wants to double the size of the hole in some settings?

[RyderJ]

Sounds like fun to me actually...but I'm a bit ...and for those out there that wish the game to a bit easier, perhaps they could purchase a set of plastic clubs, like my 5 year old started with at three and play inside their house.

Originally Posted by LongballPro

I guess MY whole point is...for all of you golf "purists", drop the 3, 4, 5 piece golf balls. Put away the modern clubs. Let's go back to playing with the niblick and featherie golf ball. Because after all...that's how the game was meant to be played right?

[newtogolf]

I get that nobody is forcing us, but why not just go to a local course, play the first or last 12 holes and count anything within 2 inches of a regulation cup as in.  I don't see the point in wasting more land for golf courses dedicated to 12 hole "fun golf" when existing courses could be used with modified rules.  Jack gets paid to design courses, so it's a bit self serving for him to suggest a new type of course that creates demand for his services.

Originally Posted by iacas

Geez, people. Nobody's forcing you to play the course with six fewer holes that are four inches larger.

I'd play it. Not for a score, but if my wife and kid were along. I'm sure I'd have a blast watching them make more putts and perhaps chip a ball in or something that they'd not normally do.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RyderJ

Perhaps we should hang the basketball rims at the gym at 8.5 feet instead of ten for those of us that wish we were MJ?

Uh, they do that. They have adjustable height basketball hoops. My neighborhood has them in nearly every driveway. They lower the baskets for kids because kids can't be expected to throw a ball 10 feet in the air. They also give them smaller basketballs.

The pitching mound in Little League isn't 60'6".

The field in a Little Gridders football game is still 100 yards long (I think), but they're playing against an opponent who is using the same field.

In my daughter's softball league, the coach came in to pitch if the kid couldn't throw hittable pitches. Soccer at some levels allows re-substitutions and is played on smaller fields.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I get that nobody is forcing us, but why not just go to a local course, play the first or last 12 holes and count anything within 2 inches of a regulation cup as in.  I don't see the point in wasting more land for golf courses dedicated to 12 hole "fun golf" when existing courses could be used with modified rules.  Jack gets paid to design courses, so it's a bit self serving for him to suggest a new type of course that creates demand for his services.

Jack used his own course. And you can't "just count it as in" because the ball didn't go in. There's a big difference between "I think that maybe would have gone in if the hole was twice as big" and "I just holed a 50-foot putt!"

If this is done once a week or even once a month at a few local courses just about everywhere in the country, I think it'd be great. You can just avoid playing golf that day or avoid the courses that are doing it.

Or, preferably, take some friends who are new to golf out to those courses and have fun with them.

I don't think anyone's proposing building only 12-hole courses that are built solely for this large hole. Where'd you get that idea? Jack used Muirfield Village. I kinda wish I'd asked to go cover it and report on it.

[newtogolf]

Jack didn't say 12 hole courses would be built soley for large holes.   Jack did an interview on Sirius PGA Golf Channel a month or two ago where he stated he believes 12 hole rounds and larger cups would increase golf participation.  He also stated during the interview that he'd like to build some 12 hole courses and redesign 18 hole courses so they are better suited to play a round of 12 holes.  He said the problem he sees using current course designs is the 12th hole is out in the middle of the course and not convenient for people to end a round.  He also stated that starting on the 7th hole would not be any better as it requires having to drive past holes 1-6 and could create problems course starters who try to fit in appropriate tee times for 12 and 18 hole rounds.

Originally Posted by iacas

I don't think anyone's proposing building only 12-hole courses that are built solely for this large hole. Where'd you get that idea? Jack used Muirfield Village. I kinda wish I'd asked to go cover it and report on it.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by RyderJ

Sounds like fun to me actually...but I'm a bit...and for those out there that wish the game to a bit easier, perhaps they could purchase a set of plastic clubs, like my 5 year old started with at three and play inside their house.

so go grab a stick and a rock and take it to your course..but don't play in the fairway..play in the rough.

[RyderJ]

Everything you are describing is intended for children use, not for the use of grown adults who have no intention of actually attempting to improve. When I go to the gym , I do not you use the junior size basketball's or play on 8 foot goals. I don't play baseball with my buddies on a little league diamond or use a tee ball plate. If making the game easier for children is the intended desire, then perhaps Jack should have been a bit more clear about it in his article. Otherwise, to me, it seems like another way to grow the golf industry, not for the good of the game, but for the pockets of the already wealthy...by "making the game easier". Again, this is all just my very opinionated stance on the matter.

Originally Posted by iacas

Uh, they do that. They have adjustable height basketball hoops. My neighborhood has them in nearly every driveway. They lower the baskets for kids because kids can't be expected to throw a ball 10 feet in the air. They also give them smaller basketballs.

The pitching mound in Little League isn't 60'6".

The field in a Little Gridders football game is still 100 yards long (I think), but they're playing against an opponent who is using the same field.

In my daughter's softball league, the coach came in to pitch if the kid couldn't throw hittable pitches. Soccer at some levels allows re-substitutions and is played on smaller fields.

[Paradox]

there is no rules stating you can't play basketball on 8 foot goals or play a baseball game on a little league diamond.  You just choose not to, but I bet to some adults..it'd be fun to do.

[Lofty Lefty]

Frankly, I think there are bigger problems in getting youngsters out to play golf than courses being too difficult.

I can't think of any golf clubs in my area that do regular junior "come and try" events. I've only ever had on letter box drop, and it was from my own club, and only VERY recently.

I think the best way to attract newbies to the sport is to actually go out there and get them. All the footballing codes run local advertising campaigns looking for people to come out and play.

I'm not disagreeing with the bigger hole/shorter course concept. I enjoy playing a cut-down par 60 that is close to my work (where my scores actually look good! lol), but I think golf courses, in my area at least, need to "get off their arse" and do some work to attract people to the game.

[jamo]

Everything you are describing is intended for children use, not for the use of grown adults who have no intention of actually attempting to improve. When I go to the gym , I do not you use the junior size basketball's or play on 8 foot goals. I don't play baseball with my buddies on a little league diamond or use a tee ball plate. If making the game easier for children is the intended desire, then perhaps Jack should have been a bit more clear about it in his article. Otherwise, to me, it seems like another way to grow the golf industry, not for the good of the game, but for the pockets of the already wealthy...by "making the game easier". Again, this is all just my very opinionated stance on the matter.

What about slow-pitch softball. Mens leagues.

[Montezumasdaddy]

I played in a tournament this past weekend called the "Big Hole" that used an 8" hole. It's held every year over Labor day weekend for two days. This was my first time playing in it and at first I thought it was going to be "gimmicky" but when I got there I realized It was just serious golf with a bigger hole and it certainly didn't mean you were assured to make your putt just because it's a 12 footer or so. With 2 people putting you should get it but there were some times where us or our playing partners didnt, quite often actually. All in all I thought it was a lot of fun and I was a little leery going in. Id do it again for sure.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RyderJ

Everything you are describing is intended for children use, not for the use of grown adults who have no intention of actually attempting to improve. When I go to the gym , I do not you use the junior size basketball's or play on 8 foot goals. I don't play baseball with my buddies on a little league diamond or use a tee ball plate. If making the game easier for children is the intended desire, then perhaps Jack should have been a bit more clear about it in his article. Otherwise, to me, it seems like another way to grow the golf industry, not for the good of the game, but for the pockets of the already wealthy...by "making the game easier". Again, this is all just my very opinionated stance on the matter.

And all of those are "for children" because the games themselves are relatively easy to play, AND they're played AGAINST other people, quite likely kids your age. I went to an eighth grade girls basketball game last year. The baskets were set at eight feet (maybe nine) and the score at the end of the first half was 6-2. Sooo... yeah. They still stunk, but it was a close game because they were playing against people, and they still got to run around and shoot and the clock limited them.

In golf there's no such thing. The only way to make "golf" easier - a game played more against the course than against another person - is to change things up like teeing up closer to the hole, putting every ball on a tee, throwing the ball out of bunkers, and making the hole larger.

So I think the analogy holds. The other sports don't require centimeter accuracy with something moving 50 MPH (and that's pretty darn slow) to be played "pretty well."

Originally Posted by jamo

What about slow-pitch softball. Mens leagues.

Plus that. Or the hockey league in which I play. Again, different rules. Our goals aren't larger... but our goalies suck more than in the NHL. ;-)

[Hackforfun]

http://www.supagolf.com/

We have a couple of these courses in our town. It's not golf but it's a fun morning or afternoon out and the girlfriends/wives will all play when they wouldn't go near a proper golf course. The courses are always booked solid too.

I would see a game like JN is proposing in a similar light but I doubt the girls/wives would be interested as it isn't any easier to hit the ball in this version of the game.

[RyderJ]

I suppose, being married, I can concede that pleasing the wife, even if only by playing one of these courses, it is a good idea....lol...although my wife is equally as competitive as I am.

Originally Posted by Hackforfun

http://www.supagolf.com/

We have a couple of these courses in our town. It's not golf but it's a fun morning or afternoon out and the girlfriends/wives will all play when they wouldn't go near a proper golf course. The courses are always booked solid too.

I would see a game like JN is proposing in a similar light but I doubt the girls/wives would be interested as it isn't any easier to hit the ball in this version of the game.

[Shorty]

When I was introduced to golf, it was at an 18 hole par 3 course inside a racecourse. It was known as "the racecouse". It was dead flat and I remember being thrilled to be playing there because it was a great place to learn the game. No bunkers. Dead flat. It would have been very intimidating turning up to a proper golf course having never played the game before. I don't know how people do it. After playing at the racecouse for what, I guess must have been a year, we graduated to a smaller courses with hills and bunker and creeks. Felt like Augusta. There is definitely a place for modified golf courses. A proper course is no place for a beginner.

The racecourse no longer exists (the racecourse does, but not the golf course). It's a great pity, in my opinion. It was a perfect place to learn.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by RyderJ

Perhaps we should hang the basketball rims at the gym at 8.5 feet instead of ten for those of us that wish we were MJ? Or, maybe we can shorten the length of a baseball field back down to little league size for the men's recreational leagues so everyone can have more fun. I think that is the problem in the world today...people want the results without the time invested....again, just my opinion.

As it's already been mentioned, many modifications happen in all sports.  I played basketball in college and loved to play on 'lower' rims - some of the funnest basketball I ever played.

I think your assumption is wrong that everyone wants results, or wants to be great at everything they do.  Not everyone wants to be great at things like golf.  In fact, many people treat golf as a leisure activity and not a sport at all.

This is far from 'the problem with the world today'.

BTW, golf is already a sport designed and "scored" for people of different abilities.  Are you against anyone playing from anything but the longest tee's?

[newtogolf]

I get that golf is a tough sport, just look at my handicap.  I have nothing against making golf more accessible to spouses and kids but I don't see these changes as achieving that.  As others have stated, the hardest and most frustrating part of golf for me was tee shots, especially with driver.  Sure I miss my share of 3-5 foot putts, but I can get over that a lot easier than slicing my drive into the woods or into the lake.

1. 12 hole course - I don't get it, if you don't want to play 18, play 9, are those 3 extra holes really going to make a difference that it warrants redesigning existing courses or wasting more land for new 12 hole courses?  I'd think an executive Par 3 course if friendlier to new golfers than a traditionally laid out 12 hole course with or without large cups unless those 12 hole courses have wide open fairways, no bunkers, water hazards or woods to lose balls in.
2. Larger cup size - most guys I know that play for leisure generously implement "gimmes", so if the ball lands within 3 feet of the cup they aren't holing out anyway.  You still have to get your ball to the green which I see as being more difficult than putting.  Kids play putt putt golf, they get putting more than full swings.  I guess larger cups increase the chances of an ace on par 3 holes, but that's kind of like kissing your sister, it's an ace, but not really.  I also don't understand how these larger cups will be implemented.  Will there be courses dedicated to the larger cup, separate greens for large cups or adding an additional large cup and flag to existing greens (which I doubt would be acceptable to regular golfers).  Either way it seems like a lot of work for minimum benefit, maybe the larger cup reduces my score by 8 strokes at best.

I'm all for making the game easier for people that don't want to play a proper round of golf, I just don't see these changes making that big a difference, but it also wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I think your assumption is wrong that everyone wants results, or wants to be great at everything they do.  Not everyone wants to be great at things like golf.  In fact, many people treat golf as a leisure activity and not a sport at all.

This is far from 'the problem with the world today'.

BTW, golf is already a sport designed and "scored" for people of different abilities.

[iacas]

I watched that whole video. It's like Snag Golf http://www.snaggolf.com/ here in the U.S. I like it.

[x129]

2) Gimmes (or putting a circle around the hole) are not remotely the same as a larger cup. Think about how many puts you miss the hole by a couple of inches that end up 4+ feet past the hole. A good chunk of those will go in. It is probably even more exciting for chips and approach shots.

Personally I think the tee it forward idea is a lot better. You go to find a way to get the people that are driving it 150 to play from the seniors tees.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I get that golf is a tough sport, just look at my handicap.  I have nothing against making golf more accessible to spouses and kids but I don't see these changes as achieving that.  As others have stated, the hardest and most frustrating part of golf for me was tee shots, especially with driver.  Sure I miss my share of 3-5 foot putts, but I can get over that a lot easier than slicing my drive into the woods or into the lake.

12 hole course - I don't get it, if you don't want to play 18, play 9, are those 3 extra holes really going to make a difference that it warrants redesigning existing courses or wasting more land for new 12 hole courses?  I'd think an executive Par 3 course if friendlier to new golfers than a traditionally laid out 12 hole course with or without large cups unless those 12 hole courses have wide open fairways, no bunkers, water hazards or woods to lose balls in.

Larger cup size - most guys I know that play for leisure generously implement "gimmes", so if the ball lands within 3 feet of the cup they aren't holing out anyway.  You still have to get your ball to the green which I see as being more difficult than putting.  Kids play putt putt golf, they get putting more than full swings.  I guess larger cups increase the chances of an ace on par 3 holes, but that's kind of like kissing your sister, it's an ace, but not really.  I also don't understand how these larger cups will be implemented.  Will there be courses dedicated to the larger cup, separate greens for large cups or adding an additional large cup and flag to existing greens (which I doubt would be acceptable to regular golfers).  Either way it seems like a lot of work for minimum benefit, maybe the larger cup reduces my score by 8 strokes at best.

I'm all for making the game easier for people that don't want to play a proper round of golf, I just don't see these changes making that big a difference, but it also wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.