Weight Forward and Secondary Axis Tilt

[miami8miami]

Quote:

I'm not too sure what you mean when you mean by keeping the shoulders steep as I transfer into the downswing.

Should it feel as if you keep your left shoulder in place and lower PA's 1 and 4?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

I'm not too sure what you mean when you mean by keeping the shoulders steep as I transfer into the downswing.

Should it feel as if you keep your left shoulder in place and lower PA's 1 and 4?

Yes it can FEEl like the left shoulder doesn't elevate from A4-A5.  It will move forward not necessarily stay in place.  And in reality it will rise a little.  Keeping it "down" as you transfer, hips and shoulders staying closed, will help speed up or release 4 and 1.

Compare that one pic to this idiot below.  Left shoulder raises at too fast a rate, arms can't lower fast enough.  Notice how much more pressure point #4 I have compared to Summerhays (in black).  Should be losing the connection to my pec not maintaining.

[miami8miami]

So doing this is more biased to launching the ball high and swinging out on the ball more because PA's 1 and 4 are zeroing out while the hips and shoulders are staying closed for a longer period of time rather than opening (like Tiger Woods's practice swings).

Feeling like the left shoulder stays down longer also keeps the left arm in more at A5 rather than it shifting out to the toe-stance line as in a CP release, am I correct?

This is all in an effort to have sufficient "real" axis tilt and not faked (head tipping back) axis tilt.

[Phil McGleno]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

So doing this is more biased to launching the ball high and swinging out on the ball more because PA's 1 and 4 are zeroing out while the hips and shoulders are staying closed for a longer period of time rather than opening (like Tiger Woods's practice swings).

Feeling like the left shoulder stays down longer also keeps the left arm in more at A5 rather than it shifting out to the toe-stance line as in a CP release, am I correct?

This is all in an effort to have sufficient "real" axis tilt and not faked (head tipping back) axis tilt.

Sounds like it makes sense to me except I dunno what you mean by "zeroing out" as 1 and 4 don't reach their address numbers until after impact - 1 especially and 4 can get close.

[miami8miami]

Sorry thats kind of a personal term. It means unloading of the PA's. They don't actually fully unload until somewhere around A8 I'm guessing.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

Feeling like the left shoulder stays down longer also keeps the left arm in more at A5 rather than it shifting out to the toe-stance line as in a CP release, am I correct?

CP would be left shoulder down AND around, kick in more rotation because the shaft will be exiting lower from A8-9 , left arm shifts out a little to give the right elbow some space to get into pitch.

Originally Posted by miami8miami

This is all in an effort to have sufficient "real" axis tilt and not faked (head tipping back) axis tilt.

Correct, well said

[Bo the Golfer]

Great thread. Thanks to Mike and Erik for making this more clear to a guy going it on his own. Love this site!

[miami8miami]

Mvmac, if you keep the left shoulder low and release pa's 1 and 4 like Grant does in that picture, wouldn't that shift the path out exessively to the right causing pushes and hooks?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

Mvmac, if you keep the left shoulder low and release pa's 1 and 4 like Grant does in that picture, wouldn't that shift the path out exessively to the right causing pushes and hooks?

Just to be clear, the player in all black is Daniel Summerhays.

Good question though.  The "left shoulder low" feel helps the player regain flexion (the right hip is in extension at A4).  This motion helps keep the golfer rotating as they transfer forward, which is a very important piece of keeping the head steady.  If the left shoulder rises too fast, go ahead and rehearse this move right now.   Shoulders stay too closed, 4 and 1 can't release, right knee flexes out towards the ball and the upper center will tip back.  There's the blocks and hooks.  Even push cuts because the right elbow can get so far behind, you have nothing left to do but swipe across the ball.

[Cracker24]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

So doing this is more biased to launching the ball high and swinging out on the ball more because PA's 1 and 4 are zeroing out while the hips and shoulders are staying closed for a longer period of time rather than opening (like Tiger Woods's practice swings).

Feeling like the left shoulder stays down longer also keeps the left arm in more at A5 rather than it shifting out to the toe-stance line as in a CP release, am I correct?

This is all in an effort to have sufficient "real" axis tilt and not faked (head tipping back) axis tilt.

Whilst I agree with almost everything in this thread, the part in bold is interesting to consider when watching this. Tiger's head appears to be moving back a fair amount, presuming that the camera is still.

[Limpinswinger]

If you use the tree in the background as a reference, it looks like Tiger's head moves back about 4-6 inches during his downswing.  It also drops about 4-6 inches, so that his head moves in a reverse "L" path during his downswing.  You have to wonder what adjustments he's making (intentional or unintentional), to compensate for the head drop and be able to make clean ball contact.

PS: Maybe his head moving back is what compensates for his head moving down.

[miami8miami]

Tiger's swing isnt perfect, but it's getting pretty close. you can play good golf with a little faked axis tilt. Several great players have created real axis tilt but also fake axis tilt by sliding the hips forward.

Notice that at A6, Tiger's left knee is in front of his left ankle, this shows how much the hips have slid and how much weight has moved to the front foot.

[miami8miami]

Mvmac, what are some drills that you do to keep te left shoulder low to prevent too much fake axis tilt? It seems that you and I have similar issues.

[kathybhylton]

The video is good. The right illustration of a right weight forward.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by miami8miami

Mvmac, what are some drills that you do to keep te left shoulder low to prevent too much fake axis tilt? It seems that you and I have similar issues.

It's basically repetition and just doing it.  Here's how I isolate the piece in practice.

[Derek Ong]

Nice OP video.

One thing to ponder: Why not set up with the right axis tilt at address, keep looking at the center-back of the ball and swing away? I find that much easier to achieve than manipulating anything in the downswing.

[miami8miami]

how would a bowed left wrist at A6 affect axis tilt? would it cause the head to tip back to open up the face? Maybe even wipey push cuts right?

[Wally]

Just want to note that some good players can get the head too far behind, tipping it back, on the downswing. These are the good players that misses are over draws and big pushes.

This combined with a stronger grip probably explains why I kept hooking the ball last summer. I'm back on track now though and have gigured out how I need to move in my downswing to hit straight shots. :)