Putting Posture

[Stretch]

Inspired by mvmac's posts in this thread -- http://thesandtrap.com/t/54372/amateur-vs-pro-putting-stroke -- I went out this morning to check my own setup.

A quick recap: Mike Shannon says the best putters on tour almost always have 1.) A "spine angle*" between 111 and 118 degrees 2.) A right arm angle** of less than 135 degrees, ideally around 132 degrees -- with the shaft and right forearm on the same plane from a DTL view.

(* Measured from hairline at back of neck, to belt, to heels. ** Measured from tip of shoulder, to middle of arm at the elbow, to fingers.)

From a face on view, good putters will typically have the shaft pointing between the left ear and tip of left shoulder.

Looks like I need more arm bend and less knee bend which, it seems to me, is going to require a longer putter shaft. Ball and hands also need to come forward quite a bit toward the left foot.

Here are the links to the full Mike Shannon videos. How freaking great is it that you can get this sort of information for free? I love the Internet, generally, and the Sand Trap, specifically. Im'a go make some putts!

[mvmac]

Good stuff Stretch!  I'm going to do some filming today and share what I think are commonalities of good putting set-ups, strokes and why Mike Shannon prescribes these measurements.  Here are some good putters that don't hit all of Shannon's measurements but fit what I think good putters do.  What similarities do you see?  Not talking about actual numbers, just common set-up traits.

Notice I got Seve at 132* right arm flexion

[Tiger90]

I dont believe there is any correct angle at which your back should be.  It compeltely depends on your putter length.  Phil used to use a 33 inch putter, im sure his back was at a 100 degrees.  The only thing that is agreed upon in the golf swing is a square face at impact and a forward lean on your irons, wedges and a forward lean on your putter promotes top spin and more consistancy in your roll and stroke

[Tiger90]

and yes, your eyes over the ball

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Tiger90

The only thing that is agreed upon in the golf swing is a square face at impact and a forward lean on your irons, wedges and a forward lean on your putter promotes top spin and more consistancy in your roll and stroke

I agree on the shaft lean or at least returning the putter with a predictable loft.  I feel that there are certain address traits that can help promote a consistent pattern.  Not saying everyone does it or that it's perfect or that everyone needs to do it, just some things I see with a lot of the PGA tour players and what's been working for me.

Will record a little video when everyone goes to bed

[iacas]

Weight back in the heels a little bit more than I want... but I'm standing on a 2.5% slope and it looks flat, so the camera isn't exactly level. The roof line goes down to the left too.

But otherwise, frankly, I don't have any problems with this setup at all.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

Weight back in the heels a little bit more than I want... but I'm standing on a 2.5% slope and it looks flat, so the camera isn't exactly level. The roof line goes down to the left too.

But otherwise, frankly, I don't have any problems with this setup at all.

Yep ,that's nice

[mvmac]

Here's my set-up, weight a little on my heels, ball just above my feet.  Better lighting on this side of the green

[Stretch]

What the heck are you putting with there, Mike? Scottsdale Wolverine H?

[boogielicious]

The more bent over posture looks very uncomfortable (and was) for me.  Stretch is pretty tall, so it may work better for him.  But for me, my back would ache after 5 minutes of practice with a shorter putter and more bent over stance.  It also made it more difficult for me to stay connected between my upper arms and torso.

I don't have a photo of my posture (will try to get one), but I have worked toward a more Utley style.  I had a recent putter fitting with an excellent area fitter and even though I am 5' 10" my putter was lengthened to 35.5" with a loft and lie of 5 and 68 degrees.  My aim from 6 to 10 feet, by laser, was within an inch of dead center with no preferential side.  This posture is very comfortable and relaxed for me and I feel my stroke is very repeatable.  But, my body is different than others, so these are what apply to me.

Below is a photo of Tiger, who looks to be more upright.  I couldn't find and on-line picture of Stan Utley's posture.  Mike, can you do the angle analysis on Tiger and other more upright players?  Rory is definitely more upright than Seve.

Thanks,

[Stretch]

Yeah, Tiger is definitely more upright, with much "longer" arms. But he has a lot of rotation in his stroke. He can (previously could?) still time it fantastically because, well, he's Tiger Goddamn Woods!

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Stretch

What the heck are you putting with there, Mike? Scottsdale Wolverine H?

Yep, good eyes.  34"

Originally Posted by boogielicious

The more bent over posture looks very uncomfortable (and was) for me.  Stretch is pretty tall, so it may work better for him.  But for me, my back would ache after 5 minutes of practice with a shorter putter and more bent over stance.  It also made it more difficult for me to stay connected between my upper arms and torso.

I don't have a photo of my posture (will try to get one), but I have worked toward a more Utley style.  I had a recent putter fitting with an excellent area fitter and even though I am 5' 10" my putter was lengthened to 35.5" with a loft and lie of 5 and 68 degrees.  My aim from 6 to 10 feet, by laser, was within an inch of dead center with no preferential side.  This posture is very comfortable and relaxed for me and I feel my stroke is very repeatable.  But, my body is different than others, so these are what apply to me.

Below is a photo of Tiger, who looks to be more upright.  I couldn't find and on-line picture of Stan Utley's posture.  Mike, can you do the angle analysis on Tiger and other more upright players?  Rory is definitely more upright than Seve.

Thanks,

Sure.  I would agree Tiger doesn't bend forward as much, pretty close though, but check out how the upper part of the spine is pretty close to level, Brad Faxon here too.  To me whether you stand more upright 125* or bend more 115* your going to see lots of players relax the neck, let the head hang.

[Stretch]

[Lofty Lefty]

I've just bookmarked this page in my "Golf tips" folder.

As a guy who averages 36 putts/round at the moment, I shudder to think how my stroke measures up against these ideals.

[slykatrinah]

Great video.

Thanks

[Kieran123]

I need to get some photos of my putter setup.

I think my posture is good though - it's comfortable...my back is bad and a few degrees the wrong way and it immediately starts to ache

I am working on ball placement and how I take the putter back at the moment. I found if I have the ball forward of centre , I am much more accurate. If I place it at centre - I miss right of the target consistently.

Any tips on ball placement from you guys?

[mvmac]

Came across this article by Dr. Paul Hurrion

Quote:

Standing correctly to the ball is the foundation of my putting instruction – get this right and the rest falls easily into place. Your goal at address is to establish a posture that allows your shoulders to rock in a pendulum motion without any need for excess hand action or other compensations which wonʼt hold up under pressure.

The main issue I find with many amateur golfers is that their putter isnʼt fitted correctly (they have either bought the latest model, borrowed a putter from a friend, been given one as a ʻhand me downʼ or even looked through the second hand bin to find the secret!).As a result, the golfer fits their posture around the putter, rather than correctly fitting the putter to their posture. Would you play with irons that were too long or too short? Or with the lie angle too upright or too flat?

Custom fitting for putters is lagging considerably behind what is available in the long game. This is something I believe you have to get right in order to improve performance on the greens. In association with GELGolf I am working to give everyone the chance to address this problem. The fitting process only takes 30minutes from start to finish…but the results on the greens are there for all to see long afterwards.

In the diagram here I have highlighted the key parameters I look for in the posture of a golfer at the set-up – in this case LPGA tour player Beatriz Recari. If the set-up is not correct, there will be unwelcome compensations within the stroke as a result. I am looking to create a consistent and repeatable putting action that enables you to start the ball on the line that you have read – every time and under pressure!

Looking from the ʻBall to Target Lineʼ, the first aim is to have the top of your back flat and horizontal to the ground; it is not a tilt from the hips but more from the mid section of your back. Imagine a DVD case or even a glass of water resting on this top section of your back.As a result your face is flat and looking directly to the ground.

This horizontal position allows your shoulders to rock on a ʻsquare to squareʼ path. If your top of spine angle isnʼt horizontal, you will start to create an arc in the path of your shoulders. And if you consider that with a medium putt length (say 15ft) the ball stays in contact with the putter face for approximately half a millisecond (0.005 second), you will realise that with an arc in your putter path there is only slight opportunity to get the putter face exactly square at impact. Please check that an imaginary line can extended from the shaft of the putter, through your forearms. This will ensure that even the slightest wrist break will not cause the putter face to rotate.

If you are standing the correct distance from the ball, your left hand will be sitting underneath the top of your back. You are looking for the left hand to be directly underneath the pivot point (Cervical Joint No 7) at the base of the neck – or where the label is on the collar of your shirt! (In the example image here, Beatriz could extend her arms a fraction more to be directly under her pivot point, this is a small compromise, however given the fact she likes the feeling of ʻconnectionʼ with her arms to her rib cage, is one I am willing to allow...) Finally, your knees should be slightly flexed, with your weight even between heels and toes.As a result, your body is in a very efficient biomechanical position to create the desired pendulum stroke with the posture enabling the path of the putter to be dictated by the shoulders and not the hands!

[Taigolf]

I would like to your advice on a different grip and putting stroke.

I am 5'9" tall and is using a 32" putter with a claw grip.

Since using the claw grip, the right elbow will stick out to the side and the right pressure point will no longer attached.

Q1: In that case, the only pressure point will be on the left?

I am using a straight back and straight forward stroke (or should I?).  Is the following correct?

Q2: In the backstroke, the right forearm will not raise up less and more to the side instead of back up.

Q3: Since trying to use a straight back straight through stroke, the shoulders more rock up and down instead of rotating, i.e. even less rotation.

Q4: However, as the left pressure point attached, it is easy to have rotation.  Therefore do you use more a rotation stroke or straight back stroke for claw putting?

Thanks.