Does President Obama play too much Golf?

[newtogolf]

I don't "think" Obama wants a single payer health care system, I know he does because he said it.  Watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Once again, you are assuming people would pay high premiums for health care without a deductible so they will use it more frequently.

NO -- I think they will purchase insurance at a balance between the cost and the deductible, and the copay. Life is not as simplistic as you make it. Think - have you purchased health insurance lately? It costs a helluva lot money even with a high deductible. If you think people who don't use health insurance will pay a lot to get a no deductible policy, think again.

And for your second point, are' kidding me?? He can't pass a single payer. If he was going to do it, he would have done it the first time! He doesn't have the votes now. YOU have this bias that Obama is a leftist to the far left. The facts PROVE YOU WRONG.

Don't give me "I think" - Look at what the President passed. Yeah, in a perfect world, some people would LOVE a single payer system. But the problem is that  type of system is expensive and  - it is less efficient than a private system. Obama realized a single payer system is something we can't afford and would not pass. Obama recognizes that a private system that is regulated by the state is a more efficient system. He has praised the free market system and private enterprise numerous times as the reason for our success. The guy is not some Kenyan-born, socialist commie who wants to take your guns. Or maybe he is - but then, he kind of saved our capitalist system in 2009 when people we're saying "we're doomed, doomed, doomed!" I kid, but I'm tired of this crap. Look at the facts, not conspiracy theories.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I don't "think" Obama wants a single payer health care system, I know he does because he said it.  Watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

Wow.  Had to dig pretty far back into his past to get that one.

I wonder why you couldn't find anything more recent.

Next you'll tell me that Clinton once smoked pot.

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I get where our differences are now, in the assumptions;

I get that I'm paying for them anyway but people who don't have health care now go to emergency rooms as a last resort.  They don't schedule appointments with doctors for check ups and cold symptoms and any other minor malady they suffer.  Once they have a real heath care plan I expect they will use it as freely as they do food stamps, free cell phones etc.  This means demands for health care goes up in the entire industry, not just the ER as it is today.

You're both making the assumption then that single payer insurance isn't Obama's end goal, where as I'm convinced it is.  I believe they plan to overwhelm existing plans and there will be no choice but for the federal government to step in with a "solution".  Talk about flying pigs?

As much as I dislike Obamacare, I have to disagree with your first sentence.   Many people without insurance now are going to ER's for things that really aren't emergencies, not as a last resort.   So they are clogging up the ER's with stuff that should not be there.      I do agree though, that if they have insurance (subsidized or free, which in some cases will be the same thing), they will use it and that will clog up doctor's offices, resulting in increased demands on the industry and increased the time between your call for an appointment and the date when you get to see a doctor.   I too believe a single payer system is the end goal.

Someone else stated the federal government was going to negotiate contracts with insurance companies.   I believe this is wrong.   I think the plan calls for states to set up the exchanges.   That is my understanding of at least one of the challenges to brought by multiple states against Obamacare.

Finally, Obamacare depends on the concept that by broadening the base (increasing the number of people paying for insurance) the cost will go down.   To get the support of the insurance industry for a plan that required covering pre-existing conditions, mandatory participation was required.   Insurance companies were smart enough to realize that they would go broke if they depended on increased premiums to existing customers to cover the additional cost associated with that provision.    Now, if insurance companies can see that, why can't the government take a cue from them and acknowledge that broadening the base of taxpayers rather than increasing the cost to the ones they have now is also the way to deficit reduction?

At any rate, this will all be over tomorrow and it can't come soon enough.    I just hope the election provides a lot more time for Obama to play golf next year.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

As much as I dislike Obamacare, I have to disagree with your first sentence.   Many people without insurance now are going to ER's for things that really aren't emergencies, not as a last resort.   So they are clogging up the ER's with stuff that should not be there.      I do agree though, that if they have insurance (subsidized or free, which in some cases will be the same thing), they will use it and that will clog up doctor's offices, resulting in increased demands on the industry and increased the time between your call for an appointment and the date when you get to see a doctor.   I too believe a single payer system is the end goal.

Someone else stated the federal government was going to negotiate contracts with insurance companies.   I believe this is wrong.   I think the plan calls for states to set up the exchanges.   That is my understanding of at least one of the challenges to brought by multiple states against Obamacare.

Finally, Obamacare depends on the concept that by broadening the base (increasing the number of people paying for insurance) the cost will go down.   To get the support of the insurance industry for a plan that required covering pre-existing conditions, mandatory participation was required.   Insurance companies were smart enough to realize that they would go broke if they depended on increased premiums to existing customers to cover the additional cost associated with that provision.    Now, if insurance companies can see that, why can't the government take a cue from them and acknowledge that broadening the base of taxpayers rather than increasing the cost to the ones they have now is also the way to deficit reduction?

At any rate, this will all be over tomorrow and it can't come soon enough.    I just hope the election provides a lot more time for Obama to play golf next year.

This is true.  Romney has to win.  The Redskins lost yesterday.

[Joakim]

IMO, This election is one of the most important elections in my life and possibly going forward. Good luck Mankind.

I believe Barak Obama should be playing Golf tomorrow instead of Basketball.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Joakim

IMO, This election is one of the most important elections in my life and possibly going forward. Good luck Mankind.

I believe Barak Obama should be playing Golf tomorrow instead of Basketball.

More important than Carter's re-election bid against Reagan?  Honestly?

[newtogolf]

Interesting Dave, only facts and videos matter when they support your argument.  When faced with facts and video's that dispute your opinion you dismiss them and attempt to disqualify the proof.

The problem with blind loyalty, the loyalist are usually more loyal to the cause than the the originator of it.  Obama wants a single payer system, he realized he'd never get it approved right out of the gate so he's put in place a method to get him there.

He's made a calculated bet that the private sector will crumble under the increased demands for healthcare by the current uninsured.  This will cause the rates to skyrocket to those that pay and / or the quality of service will suffer.  When it does, he or the next democrate president will be waiting with the single payer option to "save" us from the evil health care companies and wealthy doctors.  If not, oh well, they still got mandatory health care passed, it's a no lose proposition for Obama and the democrats.

You call it paranoia, I call it smart strategy.  Take off the blinders.  He's a dirty politician just like the rest of them.  Every politician has his own motives and agenda you just can't see them through rose colored glasses.

Originally Posted by dave67az

Wow.  Had to dig pretty far back into his past to get that one.

I wonder why you couldn't find anything more recent.

Next you'll tell me that Clinton once smoked pot.

[David in FL]

Wow.  Had to dig pretty far back into his past to get that one. I wonder why you couldn't find anything more recent.

You're right. I'm sure he's since changed his mind.....

[newtogolf]

A more recent video for you where he outlines his plan to convert us to a single payer system over time but state up front he's a proponent of a single payer system.

Clinton smoked pot?  I thought he was a cigar guy.  BTW, I voted for Clinton to be re-elected, but nice try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wTDK-LwqE

Originally Posted by dave67az

Wow.  Had to dig pretty far back into his past to get that one.

I wonder why you couldn't find anything more recent.

Next you'll tell me that Clinton once smoked pot.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Interesting Dave, only facts and videos matter when they that support your argument.  When faced with facts and video's that dispute your opinion you dismiss them and attempt to disqualify the proof.

The problem with blind loyalty, the loyalist are usually more loyal to the cause than the the originator of it.  Obama wants a single payer system, he realized he'd never get it approved right out of the gate so he's put in place a method to get him there.

He's made a calculated bet that the private sector will crumble under the increased demands for healthcare by the current uninsured.  This will cause the rates to skyrocket to those that pay and / or the quality of service will suffer.  When it does, he or the next democrate president will be waiting with the single payer option to "save" us from the evil health care companies and wealthy doctors.  If not, oh well, they still got mandatory health care passed, it's a no lose proposition for Obama and the democrats.

You call it paranoia, I call it smart strategy.  Take off the blinders.  He's a dirty politician just like the rest of them.  Every politician has his own motives and agenda you just can't see them through rose colored glasses.

Your claim was that it is still his plan, yet you have to this point not shown any evidence of that.  You'll notice I don't present things like that as "fact" because they aren't "facts" that prove anything current.

I have no loyalty to anyone.  I do support the healthcare initiative because it's a good plan, based very much on the plan I'm familiar with from the military.

When you say that Obama WANTED a single payer system, I'll agree.  But for you to imply that because somebody wanted something in the past means they still want it is ridiculous.  You can change your mind, and probably have MANY times in your life on various issues, but politicians aren't allowed?  That's what I have a problem with.

Yes, he is a politician just like the rest of them, and they all say whatever you want to hear in order to get elected.  My problem comes when you make it sound as though ONLY the Democrats are "lying politicians".  You, my friend, are the one in blinders.

[newtogolf]

Oooh so he's a shape shifter / flip flopper too?  Show me a post where I said only democrats lie.  Either you read what you want, or you have very poor reading comprehension.  There are no blinders here, I see people quite clearly, both sides lie.  Some are just better at it than others.

Originally Posted by dave67az

When you say that Obama WANTED a single payer system, I'll agree.  But for you to imply that because somebody wanted something in the past means they still want it is ridiculous.  You can change your mind, and probably have MANY times in your life on various issues, but politicians aren't allowed?  That's what I have a problem with.

Yes, he is a politician just like the rest of them, and they all say whatever you want to hear in order to get elected.  My problem comes when you make it sound as though ONLY the Democrats are "lying politicians".  You, my friend, are the one in blinders.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

A more recent video for you where he outlines his plan to convert us to a single payer system over time but state up front he's a proponent of a single payer system.

Clinton smoked pot?  I thought he was a cigar guy.  BTW, I voted for Clinton to be re-elected, but nice try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wTDK-LwqE

Did you even listen to the video?  It explains EXACTLY why he doesn't think a single payer system will work, which is why he wouldn't do it.

Wow.

As for the Clinton comment, my point was that we ALL do things in our past and change our minds about them later on after learning a little more.  Obama and the single payer system is perfect example.  Romney and abortion is another.  Romney wouldn't ban abortion any more than Obama would force a single payer system on anyone.  Get a grip.

[newtogolf]

That's what you heard Dave, really?  You didn't hear Obama say he'd prefer single payer if we started from scratch but since we aren't here's how we get there?

You say you were in military and this is a good plan that you're familiar with from the military.  Does that mean we can expect to be treated as our injured soldiers were at Dawood military hospital or Walter Reed?  No thanks I'll stick with what I have now.

Originally Posted by dave67az

Did you even listen to the video?  It explains EXACTLY why he doesn't think a single payer system will work, which is why he wouldn't do it.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by dave67az

More important than Carter's re-election bid against Reagan?  Honestly?

Yes, I've never seen our Nation on such a precipice as now and could have managed through another Carter Presidency. We need to go Forward....

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by dave67az

When you say that Obama WANTED a single payer system, I'll agree.  But for you to imply that because somebody wanted something in the past means they still want it is ridiculous.  You can change your mind, and probably have MANY times in your life on various issues, but politicians aren't allowed?  That's what I have a problem with.

Yes, he is a politician just like the rest of them, and they all say whatever you want to hear in order to get elected.  My problem comes when you make it sound as though ONLY the Democrats are "lying politicians".  You, my friend, are the one in blinders.

Hypocrisy at it's finest!   When Romney changes his mind, he is called a shape-shifter, flip-flopper and a liar.   When Obama does it, it's okay, after all, all politicians do it.........

You can't have it both ways.   Either it is okay for both or neither but it's not okay for one and not the other.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

That's what you heard Dave, really?  You didn't hear a man say he'd prefer single payer if we started from scratch but since we aren't here's how we get there?

You say you were in military and this is a good plan that you're familiar with from the military.  Does that mean we can expect to be treated as our injured soldiers were at Dawood military hospital or Walter Reed?  No thanks I'll stick with what I have now.

Cool, you have that choice.  Thanks to this plan, it's your OPTION.

If you think the military healthcare plan isn't good, you apparently don't know many people in the military.

Our patient satisfaction rates FAR exceed any civilian plan, so go ahead and keep your civilian health insurance provider that you're so happy with.  How much does that cost you again?

And yeah, that's exactly what I heard.  That there is absolutely NO way a single payer system can be implemented in a rapid manner.  Nothing about "here's how we get there" or anything of the sort.  Maybe you sent me the wrong link?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryTimes

i find it funny that the left keeps bringing this up. Romney has said time and time again that same thing that you stated above, but I don't think they understand what it means.

I will admit that in my case, this is true.  I don't understand why health care that would be good for people in Massachusetts wouldn't be good for people everywhere else.  How different are we?

Nobody has said that it wouldn't be good for everyone - although I'm not convinced that it is - but only that the decision and the associated bureaucracy should be state voted, state approved, and the state should have the burden of finding a way to budget it.    That way, states whose voters don't feel a need for it and don't want to add to the tax burden will still have that option.

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by dave67az

And yeah, that's exactly what I heard.  That there is absolutely NO way a single payer system can be implemented in a rapid manner.

We shouldn't be headed there at any pace.