Does President Obama play too much Golf?

[Mr. Desmond]

In news concerning the public welfare, the President is not playing golf today and Mitt is not answering questions about his breakup of FEMA:

As Mr. Romney accepted the bags of supplies, reporters repeatedly asked him about his comment last year that states, not the Federal Emergency Management Agency, should lead the response to natural disasters.  He did not respond. In a debate during the Republican primaries, he vaguely suggested that that emergency management should be pushed to the states, though he did not directly address the future of FEMA, whose work has made it popular in swing states like Florida.

President Obama withdrew from the campaign trail and spent his day in Washington conducting briefings and surveying the impact of the severe weather, aides said. White House officials said Mr. Obama held a conference call Tuesday with governors and mayors in affected states, urging them to request whatever help they need to address the devastation in their communities.

“The president also made clear that his team is working to identify any additional assistance that could further help the state, local, and private sector efforts to bring power back online faster, and that his team would continue aggressively towards this goal,” a statement from the White House said.

In the statement, Mr. Obama expressed “sadness” for the loss of life during the storm and pledged to provide “all available resources” needed during the recovery. On the call were 13 governors, seven mayors and the top officials of the federal government’s disaster response operations.

Mr. Obama earned repeated praise on Tuesday from an unlikely source: Chris Christie, the Republican governor of New Jersey and one of Mr. Romney’s top surrogates. In several appearances on morning news programs, he called Mr. Obama’s efforts for his state “wonderful,” “excellent” and “outstanding.”

“It’s been very good working with the president,” Mr. Christie said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” program. “He and his administration have been coordinating with us. It’s been wonderful.”

___

Nest, Christie and the President plan to look at the damage in NJ tomorrow -- together. The GOP is furious. How dare he say something positive about the President right before an election, they complain...

Ah, yes, it's good to know the gop bitching machine never stops.  :-)

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Nest, Christie and the President plan to look at the damage in NJ tomorrow -- together. The GOP is furious. How dare he (Christie) say something positive about the President right before an election, they complain...

Ah, yes, it's good to know the gop bitching machine never stops.  :-)

The local right wing radio echo chamber in Philly has been crazy about that all day.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by phan52

The local right wing radio echo chamber in Philly has been crazy about that all day.

Well, what's worse is that Mitt's "relief center" posed as a campaign event - people were shown a video of Romney describing him as "authentic" and "charismatic"

Okay, all of us, I hope can either that Romney is neither authentic or charismatic. He was pummeled by this gop primary opponents for being neither. And then people posed with campaign t-shirts, and then Romney said cleaning up after a hurricane is much like he did with his high school buddies who would clean up a littered football field. And this was a non-political event.

Seriously?

And then there is the FEMA issue...

You know what Brownie did? "You're doing a great job, Brownie." The hack who was FEMA head during Katrina - he said the President acted too quickly. Seriously?

You want to bring these guys back?

Okay... let's forget all this, and play golf if you can. I'm getting my sticks out tomorrow.

[David in FL]

In news concerning the public welfare, the President is not playing golf today and Mitt is not answering questions about his breakup of FEMA:

As Mr. Romney accepted the bags of supplies, reporters repeatedly asked him about his comment last year that states, not the Federal Emergency Management Agency, should lead the response to natural disasters.  He did not respond. In a debate during the Republican primaries, he vaguely suggested that that emergency management should be pushed to the states, though he did not directly address the future of FEMA, whose work has made it popular in swing states like Florida.

[COLOR=666699][URL=http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/candidates/barack-obama?8qa]President Obama[/URL][/COLOR] withdrew from the campaign trail and spent his day in Washington conducting briefings and surveying the impact of the severe weather, aides said. White House officials said Mr. Obama held a conference call Tuesday with governors and mayors in affected states, urging them to request whatever help they need to address the devastation in their communities.

“The president also made clear that his team is working to identify any additional assistance that could further help the state, local, and private sector efforts to bring power back online faster, and that his team would continue aggressively towards this goal,” a statement from the White House said.

In the statement, Mr. Obama expressed “sadness” for the loss of life during the storm and pledged to provide “all available resources” needed during the recovery. On the call were 13 governors, seven mayors and the top officials of the federal government’s disaster response operations.

Mr. Obama earned repeated praise on Tuesday from an unlikely source: Chris Christie, the Republican governor of New Jersey and one of Mr. Romney’s top surrogates. In several appearances on morning news programs, he called Mr. Obama’s efforts for his state “wonderful,” “excellent” and “outstanding.”

“It’s been very good working with the president,” Mr. Christie said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” program. “He and his administration have been coordinating with us. It’s been wonderful.”

___

Nest, Christie and the President plan to look at the damage in NJ tomorrow -- together. The GOP is furious. How dare he say something positive about the President right before an election, they complain...

Ah, yes, it's good to know the gop bitching machine never stops.  :-)

Yep, Obama's a great humanitarian. After the election maybe he can go build houses with Carter. :-D

[reflection]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Yep, Obama's a great humanitarian.

After the election maybe he can go build houses with Carter.

He will be too busy playing golf.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Yep, Obama's a great humanitarian.

After the election maybe he can go build houses with Carter.

Well, I think both Christie and Obama are cooperating to help people savaged by a storm.

Both of them have different styles, but one can tell they do care.

I think all Presidents should build houses or show dedication to some community project, and show we're all in this together. Get out and show they give a darn, and even play some golf to prove they're human.

[David in FL]

Well, I think both Christie and Obama are cooperating to help people savaged by a storm.

I agree. I wouldn't have expected anything else from either one of them.

[jgreen85]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

:Promoting the general welfare has nothing to do with a public welfare dole.  The founding fathers would weep if they knew how you are trying to interpret it.  All it means is maintaining an environment in which the citizenry can prosper.  Strong national defense so that they need not fear foreign attack.  A financial atmosphere that promotes growth and employment.  The only way that corporations grow is from the top down, and anyone who can't see that is wearing blinders.

A commercial enterprise usually starts as an idea of one or two people.  They work their tails off for years to make that idea a reality.  They prosper, expand, hire others to work with, then for them.  They hire managers to take over the day to day operations and manage the growing work force.  Probably they get wealthy, but much of that wealth is reinvested in their own endeavors, and in others.  If they hadn't started the company and grown rich, those 50, or 100 or 1000 jobs wouldn't exist.  That is how you promote the general welfare, not by taking what is erroneously perceived as excess for taxes, then giving it away as welfare to people who could be working for that company.  That isn't "promoting welfare", that's forced charity.

The President hasn't proposed anything that would limit entrepreneurship. For tax policy, he's trying to move tax rates back to what they were under Clinton. The people you describe wouldn't be impacted by any of the President's policies. Those impacted the most significantly are those who generate the majority of their wealth from capital gains/dividends/interest; these aren't the people who come up with the idea, work their tails off for years, and hire others. Earned income, which is how most entrepreneurs make their money, is not really being affected. Most entreprenuers form limited liability partnerships/corporations and enjoy pass-through taxation, this means they pay no corporate income tax and no capital gains/dividends. They pay income tax on their income just like I do (I'm a business analyst for a large multinational corporation).

Any change to cap gains/dividends/interest tax rates will not affect entrepreneurship. If anything, I'd say it'll encourage it for those who want to be wealthy. Right now, a person can sell out their start-up for a few million, invest it, and live off of that forever because they currently receive preferential treatment on that income. I don't know why investment income (income earned from sitting on one's couch) should have preferential tax treatment. With a change to the tax rate, these people will be more incentivized to work harder at growing their enterprises rather than selling out. I don't think this will drive a huge change in behavior, but it'll certainly offset any reduction in entrepreneurship due to the reduced incentive to sell out. It's absolutely ludicrous to think someone will be sitting around with a great idea and decide, I could make $50million on this idea, but it'll take $70million for me to pursue it.

Job creators do not earn their money from cap gains/dividends/interest.

The one huge policy (Obamacare) will increase entrepreneurship imo. So many really smart, talented people continue to work at companies for the health coverage. If you take that away from the company, but still ensure coverage, you'll see more people willing to step out on their own.

[Fourputt]

I wasn't talking about entrepreneurship per se.  I was simply using it as an example of how overtaxing from the top does nothing to promote the general welfare, because when you take the profits off the top of a corporation without leaving anything behind to put back in to growing the business, you kill its opportunity to grow and develop.  That sort of a redistribution system is deeply flawed.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I wasn't talking about entrepreneurship per se.  I was simply using it as an example of how overtaxing from the top does nothing to promote the general welfare, because when you take the profits off the top of a corporation without leaving anything behind to put back in to growing the business, you kill its opportunity to grow and develop.  That sort of a redistribution system is deeply flawed.

Please explain why people like Romney only pay the lower capital gains rate on their income which, BTW, means he doesn't even pay payrol taxes like Medicare and Social Security. And he bitches about people who don't even make enough money to pay federal income taxes. yet still pay their payroll tax, state tax and local tax. He's a hypocrite of the highest order. You call it "taking". Most people call it playing fair.

And BTW, the vast majority of the very wealthy do not create jobs.They amass and shelter their wealth any way they can, leaving the resulting tax burden on the middle class. That is a fact.

[jgreen85]

I wasn't talking about entrepreneurship per se.  I was simply using it as an example of how overtaxing from the top does nothing to promote the general welfare, because when you take the profits off the top of a corporation without leaving anything behind to put back in to growing the business, you kill its opportunity to grow and develop.  That sort of a redistribution system is deeply flawed.

Even from a corporate perspective the claims that higher taxes limit investment isn't true. Corporate taxes are only on profits; book no profit and pay no taxes. Not booking profits doesn't mean not making money. Amazon, for example, likely paid no corporate income tax b/c all of its revenue went to costs and R&D.; Yet Amazon has one of the highest p/e ratios of any company. Investors know that amazon can reduce R&D; at any time and book profits. With that said, I think the corporate income tax is dumb b/c it's an inefficient way to collect taxes. Just tax cap gains/div/interest as ordinary income and lower corporate rate to zero. Corporate Taxes are passed on as higher prices or lower wages and dividend/buybacks anyway. To the growth and investment question tho, taxes are paid after those decisions for growth and reinvestment have already been made. If you're a small business owner,which is where the jobs are, you likely make your money as ordinary income and don't pay the corporate rate so corporate rates are irrelevant.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Yep, Obama's a great humanitarian.

After the election maybe he can go build houses with Carter.

God creates Sandy storm to take wind out of Republican campaign.

Obama wins Electoral vote, Romney wins Popular vote.

Romney Subsidized with Large Corporate backing sues and wins Presidency back from Obama.

Romney cancels Obadma Care fires everyone involved, Cancels all Federal Assistance, Invests entire national budget into Military.

God creates another storm causing more disaster. Unemployed and Homeless stage protests and riots run ramped throughout the nation.

Romney says’s WMD’s found in TURKEY and starts WWIII to create diversion and get return on investment.

Washington destroyed in retaliatory strikes.

Obama is reportedly fine as he was in a sand trap golfing in Kenya when US was attacked.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I wasn't talking about entrepreneurship per se.  I was simply using it as an example of how overtaxing from the top does nothing to promote the general welfare, because when you take the profits off the top of a corporation without leaving anything behind to put back in to growing the business, you kill its opportunity to grow and develop.  That sort of a redistribution system is deeply flawed.

Gosh, it's the system we had in the '50s and '60 in the post WWII boom.

Guess we need more of that redistribution.

And recent independent studies show that the wide chasm between the top and the middle class causes economic slowdowns.

You're buying into the GOP kool-aid. But when you're inundated with right wing propaganda for years ...

[David in FL]

God creates Sandy storm to take wind out of Republican campaign. Obama wins Electoral vote, Romney wins Popular vote. Romney Subsidized with Large Corporate backing sues and wins Presidency back from Obama. Romney cancels Obadma Care fires everyone involved, Cancels all Federal Assistance, Invests entire national budget into Military. God creates another storm causing more disaster. Unemployed and Homeless stage protests and riots run ramped throughout the nation. Romney says’s WMD’s found in TURKEY and starts WWIII to create diversion and get return on investment. Washington destroyed in retaliatory strikes. Obama is reportedly fine as he was in a sand trap golfing in Kenya when US was attacked.

Wow. You've really got to lay off that medical marihuana, Jack!

[David in FL]

You're buying into the GOP kool-aid. But when you're inundated with right wing propaganda for years ...

When your perspective is somewhere to the left of Cesar Chavez, even the middle seems awfully far away...... :-D

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by David in FL

When your perspective is somewhere to the left of Cesar Chavez, even the middle seems awfully far away......

I guess if someone was that far left, that might be.

But it's not the perspective of any leftist, it is fact. A large chasm between the upper classes and middle class causes economic slowdowns. The middle can only spend their money on necessities when they have little, while the wealthy can only spend so much, and horde the rest. If huge numbers of people aren't spending, guess what? You have slowdowns.

The GOP kool-aid has evolved since Reagan, and has taken a hard right turn since the late 90's. Reagan raised the debt ceiling and never balanced the budget. He lowered taxes and then raised them. Trickle down economics is a myth, even smart Republicans debunk it.

The GOP thinks it can lower taxes, fight two wars, not regulate the private sector, and be fiscally responsible. It did not work and led to a great recession. GOP politicians pointed to Europe as the way to go - austerity - until the results trickled in. We see what economic austerity did to Europe - even higher unemployment and slower economies, and riots.

Now the GOP doesn't mention austerity, they just mention cutting all social programs and increasing military defense spending. We spend more on the military than the next 17 nations combined. No one has given an answer as to why we've got to spend that much money. They just drape themselves in the flag and sing the National Anthem. It's easier to say the other guys are not  patriots than to offer rational answers.

Obama was left with an economy without money - the credit markets had frozen and no one was spending. Austerity does not work - so he did what he had to do - when no one in the private world is left to spend, the government must keep the economy afloat. It's either that, or European style riots. Which do you want? Obama's point was that the government needs to spend now until the private sector started spending. We can argue about the size or manner of the stimulus and why we haven't recovered faster. And surprisingly, I'd probably agree with you on several of Obama's failings. I can list many of them. At the same time, look at other world economies floundering while ours is relatively strong. Obama made mistakes. He also had opposition. Could a GOP Prez have done much in the face of the same opposition? We don't know. Look at what Romney wants to do -- Bush II. It did not work the first time.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I guess if someone was that far left, that might be.

But it's not the perspective of any leftist, it is fact. A large chasm between the upper classes and middle class causes economic slowdowns. The middle can only spend their money on necessities when they have little, while the wealthy can only spend so much, and horde the rest. If huge numbers of people aren't spending, guess what? You have slowdowns.

The GOP kool-aid has evolved since Reagan, and has taken a hard right turn since the late 90's. Reagan raised the debt ceiling and never balanced the budget. He lowered taxes and then raised them. Trickle down economics is a myth, even smart Republicans debunk it.

The GOP thinks it can lower taxes, fight two wars, not regulate the private sector, and be fiscally responsible. It did not work and led to a great recession. GOP politicians pointed to Europe as the way to go - austerity - until the results trickled in. We see what economic austerity did to Europe - even higher unemployment and slower economies, and riots.

Now the GOP doesn't mention austerity, they just mention cutting all social programs and increasing military defense spending. We spend more on the military than the next 17 nations combined. No one has given an answer as to why we've got to spend that much money. They just drape themselves in the flag and sing the National Anthem. It's easier to say the other guys are not  patriots than to offer rational answers.

Obama was left with an economy without money - the credit markets had frozen and no one was spending. Austerity does not work - so he did what he had to do - when no one in the private world is left to spend, the government must keep the economy afloat. It's either that, or European style riots. Which do you want? Obama's point was that the government needs to spend now until the private sector started spending. We can argue about the size or manner of the stimulus and why we haven't recovered faster. And surprisingly, I'd probably agree with you on several of Obama's failings. I can list many of them. At the same time, look at other world economies floundering while ours is relatively strong. Obama made mistakes. He also had opposition. Could a GOP Prez have done much in the face of the same opposition? We don't know. Look at what Romney wants to do -- Bush II. It did not work the first time.

The redistribution of the wealth in our country to the 1%, to the detriment of the working poor and the middle class, is a calamity of the highest order. The disparity is not an accident. It is a decades old assault on the middle class in the form of tax, trade and investment policies, mostly fed by conservative influences dating back to Nixon and Reagan. The very wealthy do not invest in job growth. They amass and shelter their wealth and the tax burden then falls on the middle class, which is disappearing as we speak. Our children, who look at education as a priority, are buried under a mass of debt before they even get into the job market because of predatory student loans. I see it every day, as my daughter is a senior in college, but we have been able to make sure that she will be debt free when she starts working (and she can stay on our healthcare until 26 because of Obamacare, which will help her job prospects starting out). I can't say the same thing for some of her friends.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Wow.

You've really got to lay off that medical marihuana, Jack!

I would have expected something more substansive or comical from you Dave, mine was written in that vein. However coming from a State that rigged the Ballots to get Bush elected I guess I can understand your mentality.

I am not a Democrat, Republican, left or right to their extreme or a Socialist. I am a "Pacifist/Independat". In making my decisions, I take the best points of all idealogy, consider the data and make a calculated decision. I believe their are good points in all platforms but stuborn Political idealogies does not make Common Sense.The definition of insanity is doing what didn't work before and trying it again Trying it again "On a Larger scale", is totally insane.

I believe the Obama course, although not idea, is the better course in this case, especially with a fragile Economy and Romney's extreme policies. We have shown as a Nation that we can ramp up our Military very quickly. How many more Guns and bombs do we need? I do believe in continued R&D; and the development of new technologies, however this can be done with a reduced Military Budget.