Pros vs. Ams.....What's the difference?

[poser]

Originally Posted by iacas

Accepted by who?

When I was a 1.8 I was not a scratch golfer, and what's more, I knew how far away from it I was (quite a ways away - farther than even an 8.0 index was from me).

Honestly a scratch golfer with todays slope and ratings should be around a +2.  Scratch isn't shit I've been a +0.5 before and I still threw up the occassional 80s round.  I sucked...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by poser

Honestly a scratch golfer with todays slope and ratings should be around a +2.

And as others have said, that's a +2, not a scratch golfer.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by poser

Honestly a scratch golfer with todays slope and ratings should be around a +2.  Scratch isn't shit I've been a +0.5 before and I still threw up the occassional 80s round.  I sucked...

Uff, I'm not sure I agree with that. There is big difference between a scratch golfer and a +2. A lot of people feel it is simply holing one more putt and getting U&D; one more time a round, but it is more complicated than that.

Shooting the occasional round in the 80s is normal for a scratch golfer. I disagree their bad rounds are 73s and 74s.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Uff, I'm not sure I agree with that. There is big difference between a scratch golfer and a +2. A lot of people feel it is simply holing one more putt and getting U&D; one more time a round, but it is more complicated than that.

Shooting the occasional round in the 80s is normal for a scratch golfer. I disagree their bad rounds are 73s and 74s.

Given that half of a player's rounds don't even count towards their handicap, I would tend to agree with this. If a player's "bad" rounds are a 73 or 74, they're better than scratch...if two over par isn't even counting towards their handicap that means they're posting a lot of rounds in the 60s.

[poser]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Uff, I'm not sure I agree with that. There is big difference between a scratch golfer and a +2. A lot of people feel it is simply holing one more putt and getting U&D; one more time a round, but it is more complicated than that.

Shooting the occasional round in the 80s is normal for a scratch golfer. I disagree their bad rounds are 73s and 74s.

I think you miss the point completely.  What i mean is the club scratch golfer you know isn't that good.  A true scratch in my eyes plays tournaments and different courses and shoots low rounds.  Which is why I say a guy that plays his local course every weekend should be a +2 to be a true scratch player in my eyes.  You can disagree all you want but, I promise if you take two scratch golfers one who plays his same 6500 yard course and another that plays different 7000+ courses.  I'll take the traveler over the home course guy any day of the week on a course neither have ever played.  It's a little different when you play the same course all the time and know every little break.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by poser

A true scratch in my eyes plays tournaments and different courses and shoots low rounds.  Which is why I say a guy that plays his local course every weekend should be a +2 to be a true scratch player in my eyes.

OK, I know what you mean and agree. This is why I said there are different types of scratch golfers. There is a guy at my club that is off +0.5 or something and only plays at our club because he admits he can't break 80 elsewhere. He's very wild with the driver and my local course is very forgiving off the tee.

I was actually agreeing to your second point re: the occasional 80. I was disagreeing with others saying they usually have a tighter scoring pattern. Scratch golfers often shoot under par one day, in the 80s the next.

[zeg]

C'mon guys, it's right there in the definition I posted up-thread a bit. A scratch golfer plays to a zero course handicap on any course. If the performance doesn't travel from his home course, then he is, by definition, not a scratch golfer, he just has a zero index as a bit of a fluke.

Are there really that many zero-handicappers stuck to a single course? I would think the game would get really boring just playing the same 18 holes again and again. Of course, maybe that's just perspective from having been in southern California where there are a dozen or more golf courses within an hour's drive of any given point...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zeg

C'mon guys, it's right there in the definition I posted up-thread a bit. A scratch golfer plays to a zero course handicap on any course. If the performance doesn't travel from his home course, then he is, by definition, not a scratch golfer, he just has a zero index as a bit of a fluke.

Right. There's no point in discussing what a scratch golfer is. The number of "guys who are scratch on the same 6500 yard course and never play elsewhere" is incredibly small in my experience.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by zeg

Are there really that many zero-handicappers stuck to a single course?

Probably not, the example of the guy at my club is unlikely to be the norm for most scratch golfers. However, for the rest of the golfing population in Spain most people stick to their own club as playing elsewhere is very expensive.

[Kobey]

Originally Posted by zeg

Are there really that many zero-handicappers stuck to a single course? I would think the game would get really boring just playing the same 18 holes again and again. Of course, maybe that's just perspective from having been in southern California where there are a dozen or more golf courses within an hour's drive of any given point...

You are underestimating the egos of some people.  There are plenty of people that will happily play the same course all the time just so that everyone will think they are a great golfer.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by Kobey

You are underestimating the egos of some people.  There are plenty of people that will happily play the same course all the time just so that everyone will think they are a great golfer.

I don't know too many in this boat, but I do know that there are some home courses that are so tough that a scratch there basically means you can play anywhere.

[Jmdmbike]

You are underestimating the egos of some people.  There are plenty of people that will happily play the same course all the time just so that everyone will think they are a great golfer.

That sounds incredibly boring.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Kobey

You are underestimating the egos of some people.  There are plenty of people that will happily play the same course all the time just so that everyone will think they are a great golfer.

Really?

'Hey Joe - let's go play somewhere else this weekend.'

'Nah. I want to play the same course over and over so I can have a low handicap.'

I've heard of narcissistic, but that takes it to a whole new level.

[poser]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Really?

'Hey Joe - let's go play somewhere else this weekend.'

'Nah. I want to play the same course over and over so I can have a low handicap.'

I've heard of narcissistic, but that takes it to a whole new level.

Alot of people are members of golf courses and don't pay to play other spots.  Whats so weird about that?  People get married wife says you already have a membership why the hell would you play somewhere else..... Buddy of mine is only allowed to play his home course because its like 400 a month members fee.  His wife wouldn't allow him to play anywhere else

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by poser

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Really?

'Hey Joe - let's go play somewhere else this weekend.'

'Nah. I want to play the same course over and over so I can have a low handicap.'

I've heard of narcissistic, but that takes it to a whole new level.

Alot of people are members of golf courses and don't pay to play other spots.  Whats so weird about that?  People get married wife says you already have a membership why the hell would you play somewhere else..... Buddy of mine is only allowed to play his home course because its like 400 a month members fee.  His wife wouldn't allow him to play anywhere else

It's guys like that I was thinking about when I read someone trash a guy for only playing 24 different courses. "Only" 24? What a douchey thing to say. If I get to play 24 different courses in the next decade it'll be because I won the lottery.

[The_Pharaoh]

We have agreements with other clubs where 4-8 members can play each other's course on one specific day during the week paying the same amount as the members. Fridays and weekends are completely out, unless you are willing to pay between $150-200. For this reason, the average golfer plays 95% of their rounds at the same club and the other 5% being when they are on their summer holidays.

[zeg]

Sure, I'll completely buy that most people play most of their rounds at "home," but that's not my point. Very, very few of those guys play at scratch. How many guys are scratch at home, but significantly worse when they go somewhere else?

Course knowledge is no doubt useful, but unless you're playing in some seriously unconventional ways, the raw skill to take advantage of that knowledge consistently is going to travel pretty well. It'd seem to me that most home-scratch golfers would play very close to that when they go somewhere new, and certainly pick it up after a short period of visiting new courses.

And, to keep this on topic, consider that pros get practice time on a course prior to each tourney. Beyond that, most of them have played most courses several times prior. So, while the common wisdom (which I don't dispute) is that one considering going pro should be able to shoot sub-par at a previously unseen course, that's not at all what we see on TV. Heck, most of us only see Saturday and Sunday after the cut, so we never even get to see the guys having a bad week or who can't handle some characteristic of the course.

[poser]

Originally Posted by zeg

Sure, I'll completely buy that most people play most of their rounds at "home," but that's not my point. Very, very few of those guys play at scratch. How many guys are scratch at home, but significantly worse when they go somewhere else?

Course knowledge is no doubt useful, but unless you're playing in some seriously unconventional ways, the raw skill to take advantage of that knowledge consistently is going to travel pretty well. It'd seem to me that most home-scratch golfers would play very close to that when they go somewhere new, and certainly pick it up after a short period of visiting new courses.

And, to keep this on topic, consider that pros get practice time on a course prior to each tourney. Beyond that, most of them have played most courses several times prior. So, while the common wisdom (which I don't dispute) is that one considering going pro should be able to shoot sub-par at a previously unseen course, that's not at all what we see on TV. Heck, most of us only see Saturday and Sunday after the cut, so we never even get to see the guys having a bad week or who can't handle some characteristic of the course.

I can name a few.  I don't know where you guys live but, golf around here isn't cheap.  You are looking at 80-400 bucks depending on where you want to play for a round.  Most are members and stick to that one course pretty much.  Even if the guy plays other courses doesn't mean anything real different from what I previously said.  Just means they could be putting up mid 80s at different courses which get thrown out for their handicap anyways.  Alot are members of the pinehurst courses there are 7 different courses you get to play for your membership.