An Unusual 4 Putt Horror to Start a Bad Day

[Clambake]

Yesterday I played a nice private course in the SF Bay area.   On the first hole I hit a perfect drive right in the middle, then stuck a 7 iron to 6 feet away just below the hole.   Thinking a good birdie to start (or at worst a par), I smoothly stroked my putt but it stopped about a 1/2 inch short of the hole.   As I started to step towards it to tap in, the ball started rolling backwards, trickling down past where it was originally.    Now with a 7 footer for par, I rapped the putt firm enough but it rolled just over the left edge, paused, and then trickled back down to my feet.    Now I had an 8 footer for bogie!    Another good stroke, and watched it roll just over the right lip, pause, and again roll backwards.     At least I drained the 9 footer for a double bogey.     I've played with some tight pin positions before, but never one as punitive.

Unfortunately that experience on the first green left me completely full of doubt the rest of the round.  It's funny, but it not only affected my putting confidence but also left me wondering what to do with each approach shot.   I know it shouldn't have messed with my mind as much as it did, but it really threw me off the whole round.

[Grumpter]

Courses that use hole locations like that are a joke in my book.

[snofrog]

on a local course my buddy and I rotate into schedule there is a par three with a shelf on the green . this is where the pin stays . it is 4 feet wide and 20 feet long . if you dont stop the ball on that shelf it will roll off the front of the green . if you fly the green , it is all downhill to the shelf and there is no way it will stop until it hits the front apron . it is  frustrating if you dont have a great t shot .

[saevel25]

I have been on golf courses like that. One course had back to back holes, and the one hole were if you hit it above the whole on the top shelf if you just tap it to get it started it will roll 20 yards off the front of the green. The next hole did the same thing to you, were it would go up near the hole, stop then start rolling backwards. I refuse to play that course again until they fix that. They like there greens hard and fast, but when its not fair thats just idiotic.

[iPutt]

I don't (along with anyone else I'm sure, besides maybe Pete Dye) believe in courses that unfairly punish a perfectly good, or great, shot. If you're a half inch short, then that should be a tap in for par, nothing more.

[WWBDD]

I don't mind the odd 'greenskeeper's revenge' pin placement, but I'd be surprised to find it on the the first hole.

[LuciusWooding]

Well, tapping it in while it first started to trickle back would be a one stroke penalty, plus the stroke would count. I've seen a clip of some really obscenely fast greens in a pro tournament where at least one player took the penalty. It's not the way most of us would like to play, but it would be 3 strokes instead of four.

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Well, tapping it in while it first started to trickle back would be a one stroke penalty ...

WTF?

What rule does that fall under?

[LuciusWooding]

Nevermind, I thought it was Rule 19-2, striking the ball in motion. It's actually 1-2, with a penalty of 2 strokes in stroke play. And if it's considered serious, you can be DQ'ed by decision.

I know I saw a clip of this being done, though. I think it was in the 1973 US open at Oakmont, but it was definitely around that time. A player, fed up with the ball trickling about, stopped it with his putter and played a stroke after missing his first putt. I wish I could find the video... Apparently this kind of crap was happening to the whole field, this one guy decided to take the penalty rather than deal with the nonsense.

Don't do what I said, it would still be the same score and could get you DQ'ed.

[saevel25]

I could care less about green's keepers revenge. Its idiotic, golf is suppose to be enjoyed, and nothing is worse than an unfair green. Penalized for a great shot because the green's keeper is a prick.

The Ohio Open was played on the home course for my highschool golf team. Number 3 on the Hill's Course had a tiered green. One summer was very dry, and the green got really really fast. They actually built a 2nd green, and got rid of this one a few years later because it was to unfair. Players in the Ohio Open were 5 putting and i know one person just walked off the course. Well we played a match when it was very fast, and we were told once its on the green, take one putt and then pick it up. Automatic two putts basically unless you sank a one putt. That was the rule for the day allowed for us. Believe me, this green normally is brutal, if the pins up top and you get it started down that slope, your toast. But on this occassion you couldn't stop putts from rolling past the hole and down to the front of the green, then you couldn't putt them back up and keep them there. It was nuts.

But now that green doesn't exist anymore..

[LBlack14]

I would imagine if it was a private course that gets any play at all, a superintendent got a ear full for that one. This coming from someone who's changed cups on 3 different private courses since 1988. I always try to be fair and think about "if I was playing". Unless I'm instructed and have a pin placement sheet for predetermined placements.

[Kieran123]

Some putts you HAVE to sink or you end up with it rolling back to your feet or finishing 10-15 feet past the hole.

I had one at a tournament last year. I was on top of a shelf about 6 feet away and literally had to JUST get the ball started and I knew I had to sink it or else it will roll off the green.

It rolled off the green.

[Clambake]

I don't mind the "have to sink it or else" type putts too much when you know you've put it above the hole.   It's the placement where a seemingly simple uphill putt won't stop that are a bit discouraging!    I figure the greenskeeper was really hung over after New Year's and was just putting them in the closest positions to his cart so he could rush back for some aspirin and a Bloody Mary.....

[rustyredcab]

One or two really tough pins is fine and expected on my course, in particular if there is a tournament later in the day. BUT, I agree that it can be a real shame when a crazy hard pin is on the first hole. My home course first hole has a big green with lots of slopes, and plenty of very hard pin placements without being crazy. When they did go crazy one morning, our 4-some walked off the first green with 15 total putts -- and we play a 4-putt max rule or it could have been worse.

We took forever to clear the green and understood why the group ahead of us took a really long time too. The next two greens had the toughest pins I'd ever seen on those holes too. Simply from a pace of play standpoint, this was silly. If every group averages 12-15 putts per green, things are going to be messed up all day.

[WWBDD]

The 5th hole on my usual course has a big left to right slope that's steepest at the top.

When the 5th tee gets backed up, we know there's a back left hand corner pin placement.

I'm happy to layup and bogey this hole on a good day.

Good fun.

[mdl]

A few hard pin placements are fine.  A pin in a spot where if you hit the wrong shot and end up above the hole you have to sink the putt or have a 10+' 2nd putt is fine.  A pin in a spot where you hit an uphill putt one roll short, or burn the edge a few inches past the hole, and the ball goes in reverse and gives you a longer 2nd putt?  That's just dumb and someone back in the club house would hear about it for sure.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by Clambake

Yesterday I played a nice private course in the SF Bay area.   On the first hole I hit a perfect drive right in the middle, then stuck a 7 iron to 6 feet away just below the hole.   Thinking a good birdie to start (or at worst a par), I smoothly stroked my putt but it stopped about a 1/2 inch short of the hole.   As I started to step towards it to tap in, the ball started rolling backwards, trickling down past where it was originally.    Now with a 7 footer for par, I rapped the putt firm enough but it rolled just over the left edge, paused, and then trickled back down to my feet.    Now I had an 8 footer for bogie!    Another good stroke, and watched it roll just over the right lip, pause, and again roll backwards.     At least I drained the 9 footer for a double bogey.     I've played with some tight pin positions before, but never one as punitive.

Unfortunately that experience on the first green left me completely full of doubt the rest of the round.  It's funny, but it not only affected my putting confidence but also left me wondering what to do with each approach shot.   I know it shouldn't have messed with my mind as much as it did, but it really threw me off the whole round.

I was actually out in the Bay area 3 weeks ago and had the same thing happen to me!!! A friend of mine is a member at Seascape it's very short and average conditions. The greens took me a hole or 2 to get used to the speed but we reach a par 3 and I hit a good shot. I'm 6 feet right below the hole first putt went up, came back to me, next 2 followed and I knocked in the 4th one. I can't even remember the last time I 4 putted but I was already having a rough round so it didn't upset me too much.

[dhanson]

i thought it might be worth noting (y'all probably already know this) that the USGA does have a list of guidelines for hole locations .