2012 Accenture Match Play Discussion Thread

[jhwmusic]

First off, if Tiger didn't have the career that he has had...and impact on sport in general. You wouldn't be watching these tournaments, period!

[mcfc_nick]

Originally Posted by mcfc_nick

im saying watney beats tiger tomorrow, you heard it here first

*cough*

[brocks]

he refuses to accept that his putting is what has been killing him since the PGA & Yang. Stop the full swing dammit.  Your putting is your undoing.

He's not an idiot. He knows it. Everybody knows it. But, right or wrong, Tiger's mission now is to win majors. He told everybody after the Chevron that he was going to take a couple weeks off, and then start building for the Masters. And that's what he's doing. So the events he's playing now are just preparation for the Masters. Sure, he wants to win them, but his practice sessions are tailored around everything coming together in April, not February. So up to now, he's mostly been working on his driving, and it shows. He'll probably start shifting his priority to putting around the middle of March.

[laconic517]

Originally Posted by brocks

He's not an idiot. He knows it. Everybody knows it.

But, right or wrong, Tiger's mission now is to win majors. He told everybody after the Chevron that he was going to take a couple weeks off, and then start building for the Masters. And that's what he's doing.

So the events he's playing now are just preparation for the Masters. Sure, he wants to win them, but his practice sessions are tailored around everything coming together in April, not February. So up to now, he's mostly been working on his driving, and it shows. He'll probably start shifting his priority to putting around the middle of March.

Newsflash.

Hes putted poorly at augusta for the past 5 years.

His ball striking has never been the problem there.  Hes been missing short putts consistently for 3 years.

Its ugly.  Its really the only thing separating him from where he was before to where he is now.  His full swing was never his strength anyway, hed hit the ball like crap and shoot a couple under routinely because of his short game/putting.

[brocks]

His full swing was never his strength anyway, hed hit the ball like crap and shoot a couple under routinely because of his short game/putting.

We must not be talking about the same player. Pre-2010 Tiger was the best long iron player in the game, and one of the best of all time. Tiger used to make a lot of eagle putts. He made two sensational eagle putts on Saturday's back nine at the 2008 US Open. Please tell me how you can be putting for eagle if you hit the ball like crap.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by brocks

We must not be talking about the same player. Pre-2010 Tiger was the best long iron player in the game, and one of the best of all time.

Tiger used to make a lot of eagle putts. He made two sensational eagle putts on Saturday's back nine at the 2008 US Open.

Please tell me how you can be putting for eagle if you hit the ball like crap.

When it bounces off the TV tower....DUH

[laconic517]

Originally Posted by brocks

We must not be talking about the same player. Pre-2010 Tiger was the best long iron player in the game, and one of the best of all time.

Tiger used to make a lot of eagle putts. He made two sensational eagle putts on Saturday's back nine at the 2008 US Open.

Please tell me how you can be putting for eagle if you hit the ball like crap.

Obviously when he was at his best he was one of the best iron players of all time (specifically long irons).  And when I say best I mean when he was playing his best (hoylake) not his best years.

That still wasn't the strength of his game.  What separated him from everyone else was putting.

[Zeph]

The mechanic moves on! Not a Bradley fan, but big Jimenez fan. :-D Tiger didn't have the game to win five times this week anyways. He'll get more practice the next two weeks. Pretty off at all parts of the game these two days really.

[jamo]

And the leaders after 2 days: Rank Player Projected Winner Tie-Breaker Answer Score 1132 Barzeski, E Tiger Woods 31 32 1667 Locati, R Tiger Woods 23 31 1667 Manzana, R Tiger Woods 17 31 1667 mc, j Luke Donald 17 31 2306 brown, r Charl Schwartzel 16 30 2306 James, M Rory McIlroy 17 30 3039 Harriff, D Tiger Woods 18 29 3039 Wasem, J Sergio Garcia 20 29 4769 Ho, S Rory McIlroy 2 27 4769 Weiss, J Luke Donald 18 27 5596 zwicks, z Zach Johnson 16 26 6345 Jack, S Tiger Woods 17 25 6345 Noland, D Rory McIlroy 18 25

[brocks]

The mechanic moves on! Not a Bradley fan, but big Jimenez fan. :-D Tiger didn't have the game to win five times this week anyways. He'll get more practice the next two weeks. Pretty off at all parts of the game these two days really.

Not much to defend about yesterday's play, but today he struck the ball very well. A lot of his misses were due to picking the wrong club, rather than mishitting it. But he couldn't buy a putt today. Never mind 18, he missed at least half a dozen others that he should have made, and any two of them would see him advancing.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by brocks

No offense intended here, but yours is the view of someone watching golf for the first time. Even during his dominant years, Tiger lost over 70% of the time. And he hit bad shots even during good weeks, or he would never have had to chip in on 16 at the 2005 Masters.

That's golf. I'm not saying Tiger will regain his 2000 form, or even his 2009 form. But to say he's washed up at 36, based on a round or three while he's still in the middle stages of a swing change, is just ridiculous.

You should change your username to "Red Herring."

I never said he was washed up.  I said he's lost his Tiger-ness.  He no longer can win just by being in the last two groups.  It started with the loss to YE Yang at the 2009 PGA.  Since then, he hasn't been within striking distance often.  But, when he has:

(For argument's sake I'm looking at only official PGA Tour events)

2009 PGA:  lost by 3 with a 75 to Yang's 70.

2009 Barclays:  missed playoff by 1 shot.

2009 BMW Champ:  won

2009 Tour Champ:  lost by 3 to Mickelson, who shot 65 to Tiger's 70

2010 Masters:  finished T4, 5 shots back of Phil who beat him by 2 on Sunday (Tiger was 2 back entering Amen Corner).

2010 US Open (Pebble):  lost by 3 to Graeme McDowell with a 75 on Sunday (in very tough conditions)

2011 Masters:  went from 9th to 4th on Sunday with a 67, but shot 36 on the back nine and was basically even with (or within 1 of) eventual winner Schwartzel before Schwartzel finished with 4 consecutive birdies.

2012 ATT at Pebble:  started Sunday in the second to last group and tied with eventual winner (Mickelson), Tiger fell out of contention early with 3 bogies on the front nine.

Of course you can point to a handful of times from 1997 to July 2009 when Tiger had a chance and let it go, or made a mistake coming down the stretch but managed to win anyway with a brilliant shot.  "That's Golf."  However, I just pointed to the only 8 times he's been in contention since (and including) his loss to Yang.  In that stretch, he's gotten his ass handed to him all but once, and frequently with a crappy Sunday round.

My entire point is that, prior to 2009, the "That's Golf" qualifier applied to everyone but Tiger.  Now Tiger is just like anyone else, even when he's been playing well enough that he's in a position on Sunday to win.

I'm not calling out individual shots that he hit poorly.  These are tournaments when he's started the day in the last two groups or had a chance to win with a good back nine, or at least playing as well on the back nine as the guy who won.  Obviously any one of these can be explained (i.e. can't blame Tiger for Phil's brilliant 64 at the ATT this year).  However, the fact is that he's 1-for-8 over a 3 year stretch when in contention.

[brocks]

That still wasn't the strength of his game.  What separated him from everyone else was putting.

The reason he's the best of all time (or second best, even to most of his critics) is because he was strong in all aspects of the game, excepting driving accuracy. His driving was long but erratic, even at his best. But it didn't matter, because his putting was amazing. And so was his short game, and so were his long irons. A lot of guys drove the ball better. A few guys, like Faxon, putted better. A couple guys, like Phil, matched his short game. Nobody matched his irons. This is not opinion --- you can look up the stats. In the 12 years from 1997 to 2008, Tiger was never better than 49th in driving accuracy, and he was outside the top 100 in driving accuracy in 9 of those years. But he was first in GIR in six of those years, and no worse than 6th in another three. You can't do that with a short game, or putting, or even bouncing it off TV towers. You can only do it with the best iron game in modern golf.

[sean_miller]

Okay, he's out now. Can't wait for this discussion to move on to the other players still alive in the event. I mean, does every thread need to be discussion of the dwindling career of Tiger Woods and his struggles with club selection and trusting his caddie and his putting and . . .

[RPMPIRE]

Alright! Top 3...too bad I picked Tiger just like other 2.

Originally Posted by jamo

And the leaders after 2 days:

Rank Player Projected Winner Tie-Breaker Answer Score

1132 Barzeski, E Tiger Woods 31 32

1667 Locati, R Tiger Woods 23 31

1667 Manzana, R Tiger Woods 17 31

1667 mc, j Luke Donald 17 31

2306 brown, r Charl Schwartzel 16 30

2306 James, M Rory McIlroy 17 30

3039 Harriff, D Tiger Woods 18 29

3039 Wasem, J Sergio Garcia 20 29

4769 Ho, S Rory McIlroy 2 27

4769 Weiss, J Luke Donald 18 27

5596 zwicks, z Zach Johnson 16 26

6345 Jack, S Tiger Woods 17 25

6345 Noland, D Rory McIlroy 18 25

[JayMc]

Bracket watch is on I'm working from home tomorrow afternoon so I'll be following coverage on TV instead of on my ipad.

8 matches tomorrow and I have a shot at getting 5 of them right....need to catch Erik.

But I have no shot at winning (I believe) based on the quick review I did.

[brocks]

Of course you can point to a handful of times from 1997 to July 2009 when Tiger had a chance and let it go, or made a mistake coming down the stretch but managed to win anyway with a brilliant shot.  "That's Golf."  However, I just pointed to the only 8 times he's been in contention since (and including) his loss to Yang.  In that stretch, he's gotten his ass handed to him all but once, and frequently with a crappy Sunday round.

Your earlier post implied that the Tiger of old never made a mistake when in contention, and that was flat wrong. Now you've changed your emphasis to Tiger playing poorly over the last couple of years. That is correct, and congratulations on being the first to notice it.

[brocks]

Okay, he's out now. Can't wait for this discussion to move on to the other players still alive in the event. I mean, does every thread need to be discussion of the dwindling career of Tiger Woods and his struggles with club selection and trusting his caddie and his putting and . . .

The way it usually works is, we discuss today's matches and players today. But if you want to talk about tomorrow's results, knock yourself out.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by brocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Okay, he's out now. Can't wait for this discussion to move on to the other players still alive in the event. I mean, does every thread need to be discussion of the dwindling career of Tiger Woods and his struggles with club selection and trusting his caddie and his putting and . . .

The way it usually works is, we discuss today's matches today.

The way is usually works is Brock starts a topic and talks about Tiger Woods.