Single being "liberal" with score... then turns it in. What to do?

[johnclayton1982]

All,

On the heels of a related thread, yesterday I got to play a walking 18 on a gorgeous sunny day.  I was by myself and paired on the first tee with another single.  I am a member at a club, and we have a little box in the pro shop where you can just drop in your scorecard and they compute your handicap for you (and keep it on the computers at the club).

So the guy I'm paired with tees off on #1, a long par 5.  He hits a decent drive and 5 wood, then a running pitching wedge - except it doesn't run.  It hits down in a mud puddle off the fringe (not visible from where we were hitting due to the green being lower than the fairway).  The wedge hits the mud and stops dead (had some good momentum and on a dry day ends up certainly on the green, maybe close).  The guy curses, says that its not fair b/c he didnt know about the mud, drops a ball, and hits a lofted sand wedge onto the green and makes par.  He write par down on the card.

On number 6, there is a second shot forced carry over water, with a big tree to the right of the lake.  Guy pulls his drive, then hits a 2nd shot slightly fat, putting it in the water to the left of the tree (so if he dropped where it crossed the boundry, he'd be right under the tree, with no shot into the green and would have to pitch out sideways).  Instead, he walked about 6 feet (not very far) to the right of the tree where the branches are much higher, and hit a low wedge on the green for bogey.  writes bogey on the card.

On hole 12, hits a tee shot into a bunker with standing water.  Instead of dropping backwards (which is a tough shot over the bunkers), he drops sideways, allowing him to play a running chip to the flag.  He cards a par.

On hole 18, he hits his drive out of bounds left.  Instead of re-teeing, he drops up where it went out, and drops about 3-4 clublengths to avoid some absurdly deep rough (into the first cut), and makes double bogey from there (gave himself a 1 stroke penalty for the drop).

After the round, I saw him drop his scorecard into the "handicap" box as if it was a legit round.

What to do?  I haven't done anything because:

1.  I'm new to the club and have no idea who this guy is.  Could be the president of the club.

2.  His handicap will go down, not up, which will hurt him, not help him, in tournaments.

3.  I didn't play the round straight up either, rehitting one shot a few times b/c it was hard, but I didn't turn in my score.

What would you guys do in this situation?  let it go, or make a thing about it?

[Mr. Desmond]

It is his personal issue.

Let him deal with it.

He will get killed in club tournaments.  :-)

[MiniBlueDragon]

EDIT: Just realised he'll be worse off. Leave it alone and watch him damage his own chances.

[elementz]

Don't do anything...not your problem....just don't play him for money

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by elementz

Don't do anything...not your problem....just don't play him for money

Just the opposite - a perfect guy to play for money!       Use your respective handicaps to figure out stroke differential (where his antics will severely hurt him) and then watch him like a hawk while playing and hold firm on the rules during the match.     Maybe after you empty his wallet a few times he'll start to catch on.

[chriskzoo]

What state are you in?  For instance, I'm in Michigan and you can't post March scores anyway.

Worst case, he has a vanity handicap and you beat him in the club tournament.

[Double Bogey]

Originally Posted by Clambake

Just the opposite - a perfect guy to play for money!       Use your respective handicaps to figure out stroke differential (where his antics will severely hurt him) and then watch him like a hawk while playing and hold firm on the rules during the match.     Maybe after you empty his wallet a few times he'll start to catch on.

I will add... don't be his Member/Member partner or get paired up with him on Saturday games :)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

..., but I didn't turn in my score.

Isn't this equally incorrect?  I thought you were required to post every round?

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Isn't this equally incorrect?  I thought you were required to post every round?

You are correct, he should have posted his score so long as at least 13 of the 18 holes were played in accordance with the Rules of Golf.  On the hole where he hit extra shots he should have posted the most likely score he would have made had he followed the rules of golf.

From the USGA Handicap Manual:

5-1a. Scores To Post

To post a 9-hole score, the player must play 7 to 12 holes, and at least 7 holes must be played in accordance with the principle of the Rules of Golf.  T o post an 18-hole score, the player must play at least 13 holes in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf. (See Decisions 5-1a/3 through 5-1a/5 .)

[namkrats]

To post a 9-hole score, the player must play 7 to 12 holes, and at least 7 holes must be played in accordance with the principle of the Rules of Golf.  To post an 18-hole score, the player must play at least 13 holes in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf. (See Decisions 5-1a/3 through 5-1a/5.

Wouldn't one's handicap have the possibility of not being truly an indication of their skill? Couldn't you say take your best thirteen holes and determine your handicap with those and potentially have a handicap that is lower than your actual skill level

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by namkrats

Wouldn't one's handicap have the possibility of not being truly an indication of their skill? Couldn't you say take your best thirteen holes and determine your handicap with those and potentially have a handicap that is lower than your actual skill level

Or worse, your worst 13 holes and have a sandbaggers handicap.  Seems to me that the spirit of that rule is in cases of darkness, weather, injury, where you actually don't play the remaining holes.  In his case, assuming the shots he replayed weren't OB or in water (in which case, its obvious what he should do), possibly just badly struck ones, I'd say just add that to the total.  If you make a par after replaying you second shot from the fairway after you topped it 10 feet, call it a 5.  That seems reasonable.

My opinion is that a non-posted score is just as bad as an incorrectly posted score.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by elementz

Don't do anything...not your problem....just don't play him for money

Play him for as much money as you can!!!!!! His handicap will be 10 shots lower than it should be and he'll be giving you shots, most likely or you won't be giving him as many as he would need

These are the guys I'm always talking about in a "self managed"  handicapping system where they have never played in competition or have someone mark their card. Then, they enter a tournament, claiming to play off 11 or something, shoot 106 and wonder what went wrong, when in reality they played their normal game but had to learn to count and observe the rules.

[ejimsmith]

a gentleman never accuses another gentleman of not being a gentleman.

[anthony]

The mud puddle shot on #1 should get a drop if it plugged or was casual water. So, he was right in that instance.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Isn't this equally incorrect?  I thought you were required to post every round?

This may be true, and I may be just as guilty as the person I am accusing.  I play three times a week on a pretty set schedule.  Wend afternoon / night I play a skins game with buddies that I do not turn in (because I make totally different decisions re: course management to win skins), and Friday afternoon / night I play a casual practice round with multiple balls, usually not all my clubs, and play with shots (like hitting driver at a really neat hole we have, a 260 yard island green par 4).  On Saturday, I play 18 every Sat. afternoon, totally by the rules, with all clubs, trying as hard as I can, and no matter what I shoot I turn in that score.  So, my handicap is based on one "serious" round per week, usually at my local club, but occasionally at a playing partners' club.  This could be totally wrong and my 9 handicap might not be accurate if this isn't allowed.  For example, during these rounds, I will often hit a green in regulation, go up to my ball, and hit it into a trap or off the green to practice getting up and down.

Quote:

What state are you in?  For instance, I'm in Michigan and you can't post March scores anyway.

Louisiana.  We play almost year-round.  We do not post scores from 12/15 to 1/15, our wettest and coldest time.

Quote:

The mud puddle shot on #1 should get a drop if it plugged or was casual water. So, he was right in that instance.

It was not standing water, just that where he hit the ball just died (hop, stop) where on a dry day it would have kicked and rolled.  You may be right though.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

This may be true, and I may be just as guilty as the person I am accusing.  I play three times a week on a pretty set schedule.  Wend afternoon / night I play a skins game with buddies that I do not turn in (because I make totally different decisions re: course management to win skins), and Friday afternoon / night I play a casual practice round with multiple balls, usually not all my clubs, and play with shots (like hitting driver at a really neat hole we have, a 260 yard island green par 4).  On Saturday, I play 18 every Sat. afternoon, totally by the rules, with all clubs, trying as hard as I can, and no matter what I shoot I turn in that score.  So, my handicap is based on one "serious" round per week, usually at my local club, but occasionally at a playing partners' club.  This could be totally wrong and my 9 handicap might not be accurate if this isn't allowed.  For example, during these rounds, I will often hit a green in regulation, go up to my ball, and hit it into a trap or off the green to practice getting up and down.

Oh I see.  Well then, I would say what you're doing as far as posting/not posting makes the most sense.  When you're intentionally hitting balls into the sand, then counting those scores, you'd be sandbagging.  You are just practicing on the course.  And you're playing partner isn't hurting anybody but himself, so I'd say leave it be.

Side note:  How often are you able to hit that island green??

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Play him for as much money as you can!!!!!! His handicap will be 10 shots lower than it should be and he'll be giving you shots, most likely or you won't be giving him as many as he would need

These are the guys I'm always talking about in a "self managed"  handicapping system where they have never played in competition or have someone mark their card. Then, they enter a tournament, claiming to play off 11 or something, shoot 106 and wonder what went wrong, when in reality they played their normal game but had to learn to count and observe the rules.

+1.

Unfortunately, I've had the dubious honor of being paired with a player like OP encountered in a team competition.  You know it's bad when I had to ask, "Where's the nearest ATM?"

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

a gentleman never accuses another gentleman of not being a gentleman.

Oh really?  :D