Unofficial Handicap?

[MacGregor9]

I've never had a HC and I don't fully understand it. BUT I was just wondering what a "bogey-golfer's" handicap might be around? Would it be 18? I know scratch golfers have a HC of "0," so to me the 18 makes sense. I usually get bogeys, with some pars mixed in and the occasional birdie but at the end of the rounds I usually average about a bogey per hole, sometimes a little less. It would be nice to see where I stand since I've never had one calculated. I don't know if there's other variables to it, like the difficulty of the course and what not?

Sorry If I sound clueless, I am about this handicap business.

[meenman]

http://thesandtrap.com/search.php?search=handicap+calculation

[Jonathan]

Hi MacGregor9, I think you're right, a bogy golfer would be around an 18 handicap, depending on the golf course. On a more difficult golf course your handicap might actually be lower than that.

I setup a little website to help the average golfer calculate their handicap. This is far from scientific...but it gives you a real quick idea of where your scoring. See http://golfhandicapcalculator.ca.

It's a work in progress, meant for Canadians as I hope to add Canadian golf courses to it, so people don't have to actually lookup their course rating and course slope.

[Jonathan]

Oh and if your looking for something a little more serious, I highly recommend using http://golfshot.com. It's a really great iPhone/Android app that lets you record all your scores. It will then automatically calculate your handicap in a little more official way than my online tool. It's also great for providing stats about your game. It's a hoot. Have fun!

[Golfingdad]

If you want a real fast estimate of your handicap for a particular round, just subtract the course rating from your score.  Depending on the difficulty of the course/tees you play, 18 over par could range anywhere from 16 to 20 HDCP.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

If you want a real fast estimate of your handicap for a particular round, just subtract the course rating from your score.  Depending on the difficulty of the course/tees you play, 18 over par could range anywhere from 16 to 20 HDCP.

Nice!

[MacGregor9]

Thanks guys, this has really helped me out. @Jonathan, I'll have to check out your site and the app. Thanks for posting it.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by MacGregor9

I've never had a HC and I don't fully understand it. BUT I was just wondering what a "bogey-golfer's" handicap might be around? Would it be 18? I know scratch golfers have a HC of "0," so to me the 18 makes sense. I usually get bogeys, with some pars mixed in and the occasional birdie but at the end of the rounds I usually average about a bogey per hole, sometimes a little less. It would be nice to see where I stand since I've never had one calculated. I don't know if there's other variables to it, like the difficulty of the course and what not?

Sorry If I sound clueless, I am about this handicap business.

From the USGA's handicap manual.

Bogey Golfer

A male " bogey golfer" is a player who has a Course Handicap of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level. A female bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap of approximately 24 on a course of standard difficulty. She can hit tee shots an average of 150 yards and reach a 280-yard hole in two shots.

A " scratch golfer" is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses. A male scratch golfer , for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots at sea level. A female scratch golfer , for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 210 yards and can reach a 400-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

From the USGA's handicap manual.

Those are used for determining the course rating and slope. They're not actual "definitions" for people , they're definitions for the math used to determine those two numbers.

In practical, real-word terms a "scratch golfer" is one who has a 0 index or really close to it and a "bogey golfer" is one who is between a 15 and a 20 index, roughly.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by iacas

They're not actual "definitions" for people, they're definitions for the math used to determine those two numbers.

In practical, real-word terms a "scratch golfer" is one who has a 0 index or really close to it and a "bogey golfer" is one who is between a 15 and a 20 index, roughly.

Hi iacas,

Well........you have to remember the USGA is trying to base their ratings on real golfers.  (Scratch and Bogey)  They do quantify these terms with practical information in order to compute a course rating for "scratch golfers"  and a slope rating for "bogey golfers", however they are trying to describe the playing ability of real people .  If you look at  their handicap guidelines in their definition, you'll see it's pretty close to yours.

I think we would agree that a scratch golfer has the ability to shoot the course index which is usually close to Par.  (0 index)  A bogey golfer may or may not score a bogey on every hole, based on the difficulty of the course.  An average score for a bogey golfer would probably be in the low 90s.

[mdl]

If you average around 90, so your good days are in the high 80s, maybe mid 80s every once in a while, then your handicap is significantly below 18 unless your home course is super super easy. HC calc (in the US at least) starts with your score minus the course rating, but then has two other adjustments that lower the HC score for that round, and you only use your best half.  Say your home course has rating slope of something like 70.5/120, then your handicap is probably something more like ~15 rather than 18.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Well........you have to remember the USGA is trying to base their ratings on real golfers.  (Scratch and Bogey)  They do quantify these terms with practical information in order to compute a course rating for "scratch golfers"  and a slope rating for "bogey golfers", however they are trying to describe the playing ability of real people.  If you look at  their handicap guidelines in their definition, you'll see it's pretty close to yours.

I think we would agree that a scratch golfer has the ability to shoot the course index which is usually close to Par.  (0 index)  A bogey golfer may or may not score a bogey on every hole, based on the difficulty of the course.  An average score for a bogey golfer would probably be in the low 90s.

I know, and agree. I'm a course rater, so I know what the definitions actually "mean" (mathematically speaking). I know plenty of bogey golfers who hit the ball farther than the "definition" and a few scratch golfers who hit it both farther and shorter.

Those numbers in the "handicapping definitions" really just mean that a par 4 of 460 yards will affect the slope a fair amount and the course rating roughly 0 (because the "bogey golfer" isn't even getting there in regulation while the "scratch golfer" is).

I'm just trying to emphasize that we should use the "real world" definition over those examples.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

I know, and agree. I'm a course rater, so I know what the definitions actually "mean" (mathematically speaking). I know plenty of bogey golfers who hit the ball farther than the "definition" and a few scratch golfers who hit it both farther and shorter.

Those numbers in the "handicapping definitions" really just mean that a par 4 of 460 yards will affect the slope a fair amount and the course rating roughly 0 (because the "bogey golfer" isn't even getting there in regulation while the "scratch golfer" is).

I'm just trying to emphasize that we should use the "real world" definition over those examples.

This may be veering slighly off-topic (or maybe not - it is sorta handicap related) but ... do course raters also apply the hole handicaps as well?  It always seems to me that length plays a bigger role in the determination of the difficulty of a hole than anything else.  Courses frequently have a 460 yd par 4 or a 570 yd par 5 as a #1 handicap hole regardless of whether or not it has an enormous fairway, flat green, no water, whatever.  Likewise, it seems as though a 200 yd par 3 is never considered the hardest hole (although it usually is to me).

[Jwat381]

Any Par 3 is usually the hardest hole on a course for me, especially a 200 yarder.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This may be veering slighly off-topic (or maybe not - it is sorta handicap related) but ... do course raters also apply the hole handicaps as well?  It always seems to me that length plays a bigger role in the determination of the difficulty of a hole than anything else.  Courses frequently have a 460 yd par 4 or a 570 yd par 5 as a #1 handicap hole regardless of whether or not it has an enormous fairway, flat green, no water, whatever.  Likewise, it seems as though a 200 yd par 3 is never considered the hardest hole (although it usually is to me).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This may be veering slighly off-topic (or maybe not - it is sorta handicap related) but ... do course raters also apply the hole handicaps as well?  It always seems to me that length plays a bigger role in the determination of the difficulty of a hole than anything else.  Courses frequently have a 460 yd par 4 or a 570 yd par 5 as a #1 handicap hole regardless of whether or not it has an enormous fairway, flat green, no water, whatever.  Likewise, it seems as though a 200 yd par 3 is never considered the hardest hole (although it usually is to me).

Nope. They don't.

Technically they're supposed to be determined by a study of cards. As in 500 cards turned in by golfers across the range of handicaps are fed into a computer, each hole score, etc. and the computer spits out the holes - obeying the rules that the odds are on the front nine and the evens are on the back nine - on which the higher handicapper needs strokes the most to the least.

That's how it's supposed to be done.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nope. They don't.

Technically they're supposed to be determined by a study of cards. As in 500 cards turned in by golfers across the range of handicaps are fed into a computer, each hole score, etc. and the computer spits out the holes - obeying the rules that the odds are on the front nine and the evens are on the back nine - on which the higher handicapper needs strokes the most to the least.

That's how it's supposed to be done.

Thanks, I did not know that (obviously).  The last part of you definition also cleared up why it probably leans toward length being a dominant factor.  It's not really the "hardest" holes, its the "holes on which the higher handicapper needs strokes the most..."

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Thanks, I did not know that (obviously).  The last part of you definition also cleared up why it probably leans toward length being a dominant factor.  It's not really the "hardest" holes, its the "holes on which the higher handicapper needs strokes the most..."

Yeah. I know a course with a 260-yard par three (it's downhill, but still...). I think it's the #17 handicap hole because scratch golfers and bogey golfers alike are both going to tend to make the same score (a 4) because the hole plays as a drivable par four for both kinds of golfers.

It's not about "difficulty" it's about where the higher handicapper most needs strokes to make the match fair.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm a course rater,

Oops.........you know a heck of a lot more than I do.

Having followed some course raters around a course I'm envious of your expertise.

I'll be quite.