I've got a feeling about Rory Mcilroy...

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

I'd go out on a limb and say Tiger Woods was about 2 shots better per round better in his prime than he is right now.  If old Tiger showed up he'd dominate today.  And players would be intimidated.

I agree 100%...   he didn't let up when he was in his prime.  Tiger just handed people their asses and walked off with the trophy.  He didn't miss cuts, or puts to win.

On a side note, thanks for missing the cut Rory.  I take the time to toot your horn and this is how you re-pay me...

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I agree 100%...   he didn't let up when he was in his prime.  Tiger just handed people their asses and walked off with the trophy.  He didn't miss cuts, or puts to win.

On a side note, thanks for missing the cut Rory.  I take the time to toot your horn and this is how you re-pay me...

Rory and Sawgrass don't get on. Not much else you can say, but he missed his first 2 cuts, skipped it last year due to his idiot manager, and missed the cut again. He'll win soon but not at a Pete Dye course. He'll need either a new caddy who knows the course, or a lot of time on the course.

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Rory and Sawgrass don't get on. Not much else you can say, but he missed his first 2 cuts, skipped it last year due to his idiot manager, and missed the cut again. He'll win soon but not at a Pete Dye course. He'll need either a new caddy who knows the course, or a lot of time on the course.

I blame a lot of it on Lee Westwood.  I don't like his personality during interviews, his arrogance in the press room, or his negative outlook toward the PGA tour.  He's a real smart ass.  I believe Westwood had more to do with it than Chandler...  but they were both to blame for Rory's misguidance.

[the19thhole]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I blame a lot of it on Lee Westwood.  I don't like his personality during interviews, his arrogance in the press room, or his negative outlook toward the PGA tour.  He's a real smart ass.  I believe Westwood had more to do with it than Chandler...  but they were both to blame for Rory's misguidance.

You blame Lee Westwood for Rory McIlroy stating Sawgrass (Pete Dye) doesn't suit his eye when playing. WOW!! Maybe he was misguided for not playing last year, but then his record would be 0-4 for playing the weekend instead of 0-3.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by the19thhole

You blame Lee Westwood for Rory McIlroy stating Sawgrass (Pete Dye) doesn't suit his eye when playing. WOW!! Maybe he was misguided for not playing last year, but then his record would be 0-4 for playing the weekend instead of 0-3.

I don't think it's about what he said about the course; Chubby Chandler used Lee and Rory to bargain with the PGA. He was showing he can keep his stars on the Euro tour if he wants, and if the PGA wants them to play their events they'd better cut a favorable deal. Big mistake, as Rory has said he regrets not playing over essentially politics. His poor performance on the course is an aside, but he felt skipping those events because of Chandler was poor guidance and not the way Rory wants to compete. Given he likes to take time off, not playing too many events on a weekly basis, but it gives him more preparation time for the bigger ones, more time with family, and a bit more of a level head. But skipping an event like the Players on purpose is a big middle finger to the tour unless he had a good reason.

Westwood is just a bit of a prick, and Scotty was suggesting Rory was taking on his attitude towards the press and the PGA. A bit out of character for Rory, and contrary to what he wants to do with his career. Rory is a bit more independent now and in more control of his career than when he was in his teens.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

That is a circular, silly argument.  The reason Tiger had "no" competition was because he was so dominant.  His own greatness destroyed everyone else.  His winning streaks made it impossible for people to compete.  Are you kidding?  You really think Phil Mickelson was worse back then?  Of course not.  He just never won because, well, Tiger won.

If Rory had even 1/4 of the record as Tiger did at this age (he doesn't), you could make the same arguments.  Only one guy can win a golf tournament so the dominance of one individual makes it seem that Tiger didn't have competition, but that is ludicrous.  It seemed that way because he was so dominant.

Rory is a fine player, one of the top five in the world.  He is nowhere close to where Tiger was in 99-04.  There are three or four guys who you would absolutely give even odds to against Rory if a given tournament started tomorrow. and quite a few others juts behind him.  With Tiger, there was nobody else.  Literally nobody else.

Rory is good.  Someday he may be great.  But he is falling *way* behind Tiger's obscene pace.

I agree with your reasoning and much of what you are saying (including the implication that there were lots of good golfers 1996-2009) BUT I do think that a number of factors have contributed to better overall play and a deeper talent pool in professional golf.  Much of this was caused by Tiger himself including:

Tiger`s popularity (& TV) increased exposure and prize money which has encouraged more young athletes to give golf a try world-wide.

Tiger`s image as an athlete also had the some effect- golf seemed more like a sport to the young instead of a past time for old men.

Tiger`s work ethic in the gym encouraged other professionals to get into better shape.

The result of the above is a lot more good athletes competing in professional golf which is why you see guys like Gary Woodland, etc able to carry it 320+.  What is harder for these guys to duplicate was Tiger`s mental game.

Originally Posted by Zwick

Scoring average (adjusted) 2012: 1. Rory: 69.40, 3. Tiger: 69.64

Scoring average (adjusted) 2009: 1. Tiger: 68.05, 2. Stricker: 69.29

Scoring average (adjusted) 2000: 1. Tiger: 67.79, 2. Mickelson: 69.25

--> The other guys didn't get better, Tiger just got about 1-1.5 strokes worse.

Looking PGA TOUR STROKE DIFFERENTIAL FIELD AVERAGE seems to bear this out as well (at least when talking relative to the field but it is still possible that the courses are longer/tougher and that the field has upped their game).

2000 PGA TOUR STROKE DIFFERENTIAL FIELD AVERAGE

Select Year: ---- 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1990 1989 1988 1987 1986 1985 1984 1983

Y-T-D statistics through: Through Week Ending: 12-31-2000

RANK THIS WEEK	RANK LAST WEEK	PLAYER	ROUNDS	STROKE DIFFERENTIAL	PLAYER'S SCORE	FIELD AVERAGE SCORE
1	-	Tiger Woods	82	+3.84	68.17	72.01
2	-	Phil Mickelson	85	+2.17	69.35	71.52
3	-	Ernie Els	74	+2.09	69.90	71.99
4	-	David Duval	73	+2.08	69.90	71.98

2012 PGA TOUR STROKE DIFFERENTIAL FIELD AVERAGE

Select Year: ---- 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1990 1989 1988 1987 1986 1985 1984 1983

Y-T-D statistics through: THE PLAYERS Championship May 13, 2012

RANK THIS WEEK	RANK LAST WEEK	PLAYER	ROUNDS	STROKE DIFFERENTIAL	PLAYER'S SCORE	FIELD AVERAGE SCORE
1	1	Rory McIlroy	24	+2.16	69.83	71.99
T2	999	Ben Curtis	24	+2.06	70.00	72.06
T2	5	Bubba Watson	34	+2.06	69.66	71.72
4	8	Matt Kuchar	40	+2.00	69.86	71.86
5	3	Tiger Woods	27	+1.96	70.16	72.12

[bigoak]

Like Woods, he's got to go back to the first woman.

[Parker0065]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

That is a circular, silly argument.  The reason Tiger had "no" competition was because he was so dominant.  His own greatness destroyed everyone else.  His winning streaks made it impossible for people to compete.  Are you kidding?  You really think Phil Mickelson was worse back then?  Of course not.  He just never won because, well, Tiger won.

If Rory had even 1/4 of the record as Tiger did at this age (he doesn't), you could make the same arguments.  Only one guy can win a golf tournament so the dominance of one individual makes it seem that Tiger didn't have competition, but that is ludicrous.  It seemed that way because he was so dominant.

Rory is a fine player, one of the top five in the world.  He is nowhere close to where Tiger was in 99-04.  There are three or four guys who you would absolutely give even odds to against Rory if a given tournament started tomorrow. and quite a few others juts behind him.  With Tiger, there was nobody else.  Literally nobody else.

Rory is good.  Someday he may be great.  But he is falling *way* behind Tiger's obscene pace.

I wouldn't say that it's a silly argument that most of the worlds "Elite" players were well into the back nine of their careers when Tiger turned pro.

[andy gates]

Roy is very tough, young.Tiger recently the state is not very good

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by the19thhole

You blame Lee Westwood for Rory McIlroy stating Sawgrass (Pete Dye) doesn't suit his eye when playing. WOW!! Maybe he was misguided for not playing last year, but then his record would be 0-4 for playing the weekend instead of 0-3.

Read the post...  I blamed them for Rory's misguidance, not his poor play.  LuciusWooding summed it up in his statement that followed your trash.

[the19thhole]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

Read the post...  I blamed them for Rory's misguidance, not his poor play.  LuciusWooding summed it up in his statement that followed your trash.

Oh I get it now. He was misguided into saying that Sawgrass doesn't suit his eye by Chubby and Lee Westwood.

[the19thhole]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I don't think it's about what he said about the course; Chubby Chandler used Lee and Rory to bargain with the PGA. He was showing he can keep his stars on the Euro tour if he wants, and if the PGA wants them to play their events they'd better cut a favorable deal. Big mistake, as Rory has said he regrets not playing over essentially politics. His poor performance on the course is an aside, but he felt skipping those events because of Chandler was poor guidance and not the way Rory wants to compete. Given he likes to take time off, not playing too many events on a weekly basis, but it gives him more preparation time for the bigger ones, more time with family, and a bit more of a level head. But skipping an event like the Players on purpose is a big middle finger to the tour unless he had a good reason.

Westwood is just a bit of a prick, and Scotty was suggesting Rory was taking on his attitude towards the press and the PGA. A bit out of character for Rory, and contrary to what he wants to do with his career. Rory is a bit more independent now and in more control of his career than when he was in his teens.

Rightly or wrongly Chubby's job is to use the players he represents to cut favourable deals with anyone for the benefit of those players. He is there to maximise their earning potential by whatever means he can. Do I agree with it, well that's another arguement. As it turns out Rory obviously didn't. I'm sure Tiger's (or others) management never used similar tactics to benefit him.

Talking of the Players in particular - what is it with Americans and this tournament, it's not a major. Get over it. Given his record at Sawgrass I'd say he has a very good reason. That was my point, he said it himself at the time that the course doesn't suit him. Oh I forgot he was misguided into saying this.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by the19thhole

Rightly or wrongly Chubby's job is to use the players he represents to cut favourable deals with anyone for the benefit of those players. He is there to maximise their earning potential by whatever means he can. Do I agree with it, well that's another arguement. As it turns out Rory obviously didn't. I'm sure Tiger's (or others) management never used similar tactics to benefit him.

Talking of the Players in particular - what is it with Americans and this tournament, it's not a major. Get over it. Given his record at Sawgrass I'd say he has a very good reason. That was my point, he said it himself at the time that the course doesn't suit him. Oh I forgot he was misguided into saying this.

I'd say he was more concerned with himself than the benefit of Rory or Lee. Obviously Rory felt the same way. For one thing, if Chubby wanted Rors and Lee to earn more, why the hell did he have them play on the Euro tour so much? He did it because he was trying to make golf more global since he represents so many international stars. Rory wanted to go compete with the best, not try to steal a few viewers from the PGA tour.

It's the biggest non major event and there's no reason to get over it. Maybe the Ryder Cup is not a major, but it's prestigious and provides players with a legacy. The Players is probably more prestigious than the PGA championship in terms of exposure and building a legacy, the only thing the PGA has going is that it applies for major count. If you gave most players the choice between a win at TPC or a PGA title, sure they'd take the major, but it's the least important major and most players would probably trade 2 PGA titles for a green jacket. I'd say TPC is a pretty big deal given all the international winners: in the last 10 years there have been only 3 American winners and it's the strongest field of any non major event. It's the PGA tour's flagship event.

Rory can say the course doesn't suit his eye without being rude. It's Pete Dye, he could design mini golf courses and still have fewer gimmicks; and he'd get to keep the wooden walls around the edges. He was misguided into skipping the tournament and I don't believe he said he skipped it because he didn't like the course; he still wanted to compete because it's such a big event but his manager used him as a bargaining chip.

[the19thhole]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I'd say he was more concerned with himself than the benefit of Rory or Lee. Obviously Rory felt the same way. For one thing, if Chubby wanted Rors and Lee to earn more, why the hell did he have them play on the Euro tour so much? He did it because he was trying to make golf more global since he represents so many international stars. Rory wanted to go compete with the best, not try to steal a few viewers from the PGA tour.

It's the biggest non major event and there's no reason to get over it. Maybe the Ryder Cup is not a major, but it's prestigious and provides players with a legacy. The Players is probably more prestigious than the PGA championship in terms of exposure and building a legacy, the only thing the PGA has going is that it applies for major count. If you gave most players the choice between a win at TPC or a PGA title, sure they'd take the major, but it's the least important major and most players would probably trade 2 PGA titles for a green jacket. I'd say TPC is a pretty big deal given all the international winners: in the last 10 years there have been only 3 American winners and it's the strongest field of any non major event. It's the PGA tour's flagship event.

Rory can say the course doesn't suit his eye without being rude. It's Pete Dye, he could design mini golf courses and still have fewer gimmicks; and he'd get to keep the wooden walls around the edges. He was misguided into skipping the tournament and I don't believe he said he skipped it because he didn't like the course; he still wanted to compete because it's such a big event but his manager used him as a bargaining chip.

I see what you are saying and don't disagree with you. I'm sure Chubby is looking out for himself too. Heck you don't get to be his size without feeding number 1.

I also think the prize money on offer makes The Players a big deal as well. Don't get me wrong I like the tournament, Definitely one I always tune into. Maybe I was wrong to believe what Rory said about not playing there last year.

I'm all for the best players competing against each other on a more regular basis no matter where it is.

Anyway back on topic - I think Rory is a good player with great potential and that's what I believe should be rememered right now. He still has to prove that he will go down as one of the best. Tiger on the other hand has done that and as good as Rory is he is still a maybe.

[scottyjoe145]

Another thing about McIlroy that will make it harder for him to earn Tiger-like respect is the fact that he only plays the big events over here.  Take the last 2 weeks for example...  if he were here racking up stats it would only help his image.  I know his home is in another country, but he did commit to playing our tour.  He's only 23, what the hell is he doing right now??  When he plays sporadically it almost comes off as arrogant, to me anyway.  These are your glory years!  I can attest to the injuries this game dishes out and I'm just 30.  He should be taking advantage of his youth and setting the bar right now, IMO.

[Zeph]

What does he need the "Tiger-respect" for? I'm happy he don't throw his entire life into the PGA Tour for fame and money. He plays around the world and the golf fans are happy. Not doing himself any favors by missing cuts obviously, but nobody is on top all the time. Rory isn't trying to be Tiger or do what Tiger did. He's playing his game, living his life.

[showtime583]

79 today and MC....ouch. Just goes to show it happens to the best of 'em....he'll get back on the horse and be sharp for the US Open I'm sure!

[bplewis24]

This thread should be closed and archived...for posterity .

Brandon