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Originally Posted by NM Golf

I have heard all kinds of statistics about what percentage of golfers are scratch, break 80, etc. I play a lot of golf and I play quite a bit as a single or with my dad as a twosome. In the 15 or so years I have been playing golf I have never been paired up with another golfer that broke 80, not once. This doesn't mean I haven't played with someone that broke 80, I just haven't gone to the course and randomly been placed with a stranger who broke 80. That's hundreds if not thousands of people.

Plus, most people shoot much higher scores than they think they do.The rules of golf are complicated and most weekend players use them "loosely". So that average score that most people say they shoot should probably be taken with a grain of salt. For exampIe, I played with a guy on Sunday that hit 3 balls out of bounds, lost two others, gave himself several putts in the 5'-6' range, and took his fair share of mulligans. He never hit a provisional ball, he just dropped a ball around where his got lost and played. He was a really nice guy, but when he announced on the 18th green that he had just shot 86 I had to laugh (to myself of course). Personally I don't mind, we were not playing against each other and he can think he shot under par for all I care, but there is almost no chance, had he played within the rules, that he would have broken 100. Like I said the rules are complicated, and for the average recreational golfer they are not that important and could even be somewhat of a downer.

Surprised at the first paragraph.  I bet I don't play nearly as often as a +0.9, but I almost always play as a twosome so get paired with two strangers, and over the past 4 years I've been paired with 3 people I know shot mid 70s (legit!) the day I played with them and at least another half dozen who shot 78-79, also legit as far as I was paying attention.

The ignoring of OB and lost ball penalties among people who recorded a score in the 80s I agree is quite common.  The picking up of a 5'-6' putt and counting it as a gimme I must say I've never seen.  Definitely I've seen liberal 2'-3' gimmes, but the only people I've seen pick up 5'-6' putts are old guys who generally start taking holes or halves of holes entirely off by the end of the round or serious hackers for whom that 6' putt is their 4th putt on the hole for a 10 and they just give up, but aren't claiming anything close to an 86 at the end of the round.  Maybe they're claiming a 115 when really they shot a 130, but who's to begrudge them that?

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Surprised at the first paragraph.  I bet I don't play nearly as often as a +0.9, but I almost always play as a twosome so get paired with two strangers, and over the past 4 years I've been paired with

Well when I go out on courses I would say that about 1/3 are chasing balls in the trees and hitting long shots with their irons that just go about 50 yards or less or into the woods, when they wanted them to go straight and 150 yards.

I would guess that 20% hit less than 100.

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I've found that the majority of people score pretty close to the following: 95 - (2 X GIR)......so if you hit 5 greens your'e around 85.....but they are legitimate GIR's.....not the no count OB ball or the ball on the fringe with a 70 footer left GIR.....but all straight forward scoring.  not 100% rock solid all the time, but if you look at your rounds it is uaually within 2 or 3 strokes

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  • 1 month later...
Originally Posted by NM Golf

I have heard all kinds of statistics about what percentage of golfers are scratch, break 80, etc. I play a lot of golf and I play quite a bit as a single or with my dad as a twosome. In the 15 or so years I have been playing golf I have never been paired up with another golfer that broke 80, not once.

Really?

And you pair up a lot?  It's definitely not common, but I've been paired with some very good golfers over the past 20 years so I find your comment interesting.   Heck, I've been paired with low HC players before....and even college golfers and competitive ams at state and national levels.   I've been paired with people that make me feel like a hacker!!  it's rare, but it happens.

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I came across these stats a couple of weeks ago, don't remember where though

50% of all weekend golfers shoot 100 or higher

26% shoot 90-99

24% shoot under 90

based on the players I share rounds with this seems to be pretty accurate.

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I highly disagree with the people saying GIR doesn't matter.   Average GIR is highly correlated to both scoring and handicap over the long haul.  Yes...it's possible to scramble and score, but over the long haul.........greens in regulation are very much correlated to scoring. (it's right up there with putting)

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Originally Posted by camper6

It really gets down to greens in regulation.

If you cant hit greens in regulation you  can expect your score to be at least 18 over par and that's if you can get down with two putts.

72 + 18 = 90


If you get on in regulation and down with 2 putts..as you say..that would be 72 (assuming par is 72 for the course)..and to be at least 18 over par..well it could be much more or less also..but I assume there is a type somewhere in your statement.

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A correction .  I researched a bit in the only Hogan book i have, Power Golf, and found this statement in the Introduction, p. xiv.

" Someone once estimated that 90 is the dividing line between a golfer and a dub. If that is true, then only about 15 to 20%  of those who play the game can accurately describe themselves as golfers."

I had listened to my brother, a well known 'dub' who quoted Hogan.  At least for me I inch towards the desired goal of 90.

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

I highly disagree with the people saying GIR doesn't matter.   Average GIR is highly correlated to both scoring and handicap over the long haul.  Yes...it's possible to scramble and score, but over the long haul.........greens in regulation are very much correlated to scoring. (it's right up there with putting)

Agree totally. More greens and more chances for birdies.

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  • 8 months later...

I think there are different types of golfers. Here are two types. Score based golfers and golfers who are more in a practice mode (even when they're on the course)  all the time and are more focused on hitting solid shots---finding the center of the clubface.  I used to be the mainstream type of golfer who just knocks one ball around the course and focuses on "scoring."  I was always trying to "shoot in the 70's but this was because I was young and I had never seen my ugly swing on video and I was deluded into thinking I was a great golfer. This was when I was 16 (I'm 43 now). Even though I had broken 80 many times (and I had even shot a 70 in a junior tournament) I wasn't really a "great golfer." For me it's not about the score. It's about having a consistent, repeating, reliable swing in which you can hit pin-high shots with your irons and have no problem with every club in your bag---Sand wedge-Driver.    And that you know how to hit fades on the dog leg rights and draws on the dog leg lefts and that you can know what you did wrong when you blocked that shot right and know how to make as Tiger says "the fixes" when you start hooking all your shots or start hitting nothing but thin, weak fades. Understanding the fundamentals. Your hooking it? well try opening your stance or narrowing your stance or weakening your grip or clearing your hips faster or opening the face or taking it back a little more outside etc.    If I'm out "playing" on the course and I hit a really weak 7 iron ten yards short of the green, I want to know why that happened. I'll usually drop another ball. Of course, this is why I always just play by myself. I wouldn't do this if I had a playing partner. He might be one of those guys that would get annoyed by that, just as guys who just play one ball seem overly rigid. When I'm on a golf course, and I'm at the 100 yard marker and my playing partner is standing over the ball and waggling for what seems like eternity, more times than not, I will throw a ball down and seize this opportunity to take a practice shot. Hit that 100 yard gap wedge shot.  call me crazy. But golf is a practice for me.  A way of life. not just a game.

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

I highly disagree with the people saying GIR doesn't matter.   Average GIR is highly correlated to both scoring and handicap over the long haul.  Yes...it's possible to scramble and score, but over the long haul.........greens in regulation are very much correlated to scoring. (it's right up there with putting)

I agree with this statement but one thing I've noticed is people will practice a ton by beating balls at the range yet totally neglect the practice green. Now this would be more for players that don't break 90 or 80 and obviously getting to the range will help. My point is I've seen quite a few 10 to 20 handicaps who hit the ball fine but if they miss a green it's automatically 1 or 2 strokes thrown away on poor chipping and putting.

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My handicap in my sig is legit, but out of date--meaning I didn't sign up to post scores last year. My scoring is about the same, though. So I am a little better than bogey most days. If I shoot 85 or less I feel pretty good, 85-88 so so, and worse than that I feel like a left a lot on the course. I am not consistently great at anything but not consistently terrible at anything either. I do hit several shots during a round that most any non pro would be satisfied with, and occasionally one or two a pro would take. Maybe 1-2 3putts per round. About once a year I will break 80 if playing regularly. A typical 9 holes will have 3-4 pars, 3-4 bogies, an occasional birdie, and 2-3 doubles or worse. The rare occasions I break 80 it is usually avoiding the doubles and 8's. Said all that as a preface--I think most folks who shoot 85-90 regularly are about like me. I don't think you will 3 putt every green and shoot 90. I think the better your GIR, the better your score will be. Its not the most important, but I don't think someone who can hit 70-80% GIR will 3 putt them all. I make several chip and putt pars to get my 85-90, but I don't do it every time. I don't 3 putt every time either, so if I hit more greens, my score will be better. I think it shows the importance of the short game for sure, but if the same person hits more greens, their score will be lower. We have all played with those old guys who miss every green, but get it up and down half the time and shoot 80-85. If they hit more greens, it wouldn't make their putting worse.
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  • 2 months later...

I agree with your assessment and I do firmly believe that it is the Tiger effect.

Love him or hate him, he is single-handedly responsible for thousands (maybe millions) of people worldwide taking up the game.  I probably would not have ever taking up golf had it not been for his run in 2000.

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Originally Posted by golf55

Pretty much every player I have met LIED about their score. I say 1 out of 100 1% can play even par. Usually college players or pro.

I played today with a +2 handicap.  I heard he was +2 before the round started, and I said, "I'd love to see what a +2 looks like."  The other guy who was hosting me said, "well you're about to."

I ended up being in the cart with him.  We only played 9, but he was 5 under going into the last hole, which he bogied from being in the lateral hazard off the tee (but playable, in some dirt/tall grass).  It wasn't as amazing as watching the one guy I played with hit the ball 300+ (real, not internet), but it was impressive in another way.  Fairway, green, and a 20 foot putt was the norm.  When he had a putt inside of 10 feet for birdie, he made all but one of them (missed a 4 footer on a par 5).  Then made getting up and down look like a piece of cake on one of the two greens he missed.

I eventually asked him what his low 9 was, while he was in the hazard on the ninth hole.  He said it was 8 under.  Went on to say his low 18-hole round was 63.  How cool is that?  He probably drove it right in the 275-280 range (real, not internet, so that's impressive) and it was really consistent.  It's just not amazingly, incredibly astounding.  It's simply impressive because it makes golf look like an easy game.  Course slope was like 135 with a 70.1 rating.

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