Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

Is it legal to use your putter to line up your putt?


Note: This thread is 4071 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Say I marked my ball, and I then took my putter and laid it down on the ground (the shaft) as a line to where I want to putt. I then placed the ball, with the alignment marker on the ball on that line of the shaft of the putter, picked up the putter and then putt. Is that legal?


  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted
Originally Posted by ajst22

Say I marked my ball, and I then took my putter and laid it down on the ground (the shaft) as a line to where I want to putt. I then placed the ball, with the alignment marker on the ball on that line of the shaft of the putter, picked up the putter and then putt. Is that legal?

Never heard this one.  I'm assuming you are placing the putter behind the ball.   Rule 8-2b prohibits you from touching the green in order to point out a "line for putting".  I always thought of "line for putting" as a point in the direction towards the hole....not behind the ball.  Not sure on this one....have to think about it.

Regards,

John

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Never heard this one.  I'm assuming you are placing the putter behind the ball.   Rule 8-2b prohibits you from touching the green in order to point out a "line for putting".  I always thought of "line for putting" as a point in the direction towards the hole....not behind the ball.  Not sure on this one....have to think about it.

Exactly...lining up the putter behind the ball and I wasn't sure either. Matt Kuchar actually comes to mind now because I think he does something like this.


Posted

I dont think ur allowed to lay anything on the green in front or behind to line it up. My advice is learn the spider crawl that villegas does lol.


Posted

You may not touch the line of putt but that only runs from the ball to the hole. If your club was on the side away from the hole there is no problem.


Posted
Originally Posted by Rulesman

You may not touch the line of putt but that only runs from the ball to the hole. If your club was on the side away from the hole there is no problem.

How about for full swing shots from the tee box or fairway?  Are you allowed to lay a club on the ground to verify proper alignment?


Posted
Originally Posted by Chipless

How about for full swing shots from the tee box or fairway?  Are you allowed to lay a club on the ground to verify proper alignment?


As long as it is no longer there when you take your swing.


Posted

Why not put the ball on the ground with the alignment mark on the ball going where you want it, then stand behind the ball and use your club (in your hands) to make sure the line is pointing the to right spot?  If the alignment mark on the ball is parallel to with your putter you're aiming correctly.  Does that make sense?

Dan

:tmade: R11s 10.5*, Adila RIP Phenom 60g Stiff
:ping: G20 3W
:callaway: Diablo 3H
:ping:
i20 4-U, KBS Tour Stiff
:vokey: Vokey SM4 54.14 
:vokey: Vokey :) 58.11

:scotty_cameron: Newport 2
:sunmountain: Four 5

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Originally Posted by ajst22

Say I marked my ball, and I then took my putter and laid it down on the ground (the shaft) as a line to where I want to putt. I then placed the ball, with the alignment marker on the ball on that line of the shaft of the putter, picked up the putter and then putt. Is that legal?

I saw on TV someone do this today in the Open.  I have to assume that it is OK.  I don't remember the exact sequence that he did, but at one point his putter was lying on the green directly behind the ball or mark with the shaft lined up toward the hole or line toward the hole.


Posted
Originally Posted by ndb8fxe

I have to assume that it is OK.

You don't have to assume. There is no rule prohibiting such an action. Therefore it is OK.

The two conditions that must be met are that the line of putt must not be touched and the alignment club must be removed before the stroke is made.


Posted
Originally Posted by Rulesman

You don't have to assume. There is no rule prohibiting such an action. Therefore it is OK.

The two conditions that must be met are that the line of putt must not be touched and the alignment club must be removed before the stroke is made.

Rule 8.2b states that the putting green must not be touched when pointing out a line for putting.  Does laying a putter behind the ball constitutes pointing out a line for putting? If so, then I can't see how there isn't a penalty.


  • Administrator
Posted
Rule 8.2b states that the putting green must not be touched when pointing out a line for putting.  Does laying a putter behind the ball constitutes pointing out a line for putting? If so, then I can't see how there isn't a penalty.

Look up the definition for "line of putt" in the Rules. [QUOTE] Line Of Putt The “line of putt’’ is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, the line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the intended line. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole.[/QUOTE] It doesn't extend beyond the hole, nor behind the golf ball.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


Look up the definition for "line of putt" in the Rules.
Quote:
Line Of Putt
The “line of putt’’ is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, the line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the intended line. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole.
It doesn't extend beyond the hole, nor behind the golf ball.

Rule 8.2 does not refer to the line of putt, it refers to a "line for putting" - they are not the same thing.


Posted
Rule 8.2b states that the putting green must not be touched when pointing out a line for putting.  Does laying a putter behind the ball constitutes pointing out a line for putting? If so, then I can't see how there isn't a penalty.

[QUOTE]b. On the Putting Green When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] 16-1. General a. Touching Line of Putt The line of putt must not be touched except: (i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not press anything down; [COLOR=FF00AA] (ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing it, provided he does not press anything down [/COLOR];[/QUOTE] I get a bit confused by these two rules. One says you can't touch the green, the other says you can put a club down.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Originally Posted by pogle

Rule 8.2 does not refer to the line of putt, it refers to a "line for putting" - they are not the same thing.

But can you tell us what the difference is?


Posted

Hi Rulesman,

I'm trying to get this confirmed, but if you touch the green at a point beyond the hole to indicate an aim point for your partner, are you not indicating the line of play and in breach of R8-2b?  I realize the line of play does not extend past the hole, however 8-2a prohibits a mark on an extension past the hole during the stroke.  Just seems strange that if the Rules meant the LOP for R8-2b, why didn't they just say that instead of using the term Line for putting.

Regards,

John

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Hi Rulesman,

I'm trying to get this confirmed, but if you touch the green at a point beyond the hole to indicate an aim point for your partner, are you not indicating the line of play and in breach of R8-2b?  I realize the line of play does not extend past the hole, however 8-2a prohibits a mark on an extension past the hole during the stroke.  Just seems strange that if the Rules meant the LOP for R8-2b, why didn't they just say that instead of using the term Line for putting.


Given the precision with which terms are used in the rules, I think you're correct and 8-2b is not limited to the Line of Putt. It seems apparent that you're not allowed to touch the green while indicating a line, regardless of whether you're on the actual Line of Putt. After all, the line you'd point out would be the starting direction, only a small portion of which would be on the Line of Putt if there's a significant break.

As for how this bears on the original question, I don't know. Given that you're allowed to ground your club, including ahead of the ball, you're clearly allowed to touch the green in a limited context while pointing out a line. It's easy to understand that as different from the sort of action considered in 8-2b. Laying the club on the green is a lot less clear to me.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"


  • Administrator
Posted
You can put a club on the ground behind the ball. Heck, you can use your putter to mark your ball's position if you want. I'm not sure why this is confusing. You can't point to a spot on the green and touch it to indicate the line of the putt. You can't have an alignment aid present when making a stroke. You can't test the surface of the green. Other than that, what other rules could possibly prevent you from setting your putter down on the green? Heck, you can set another club down behind your ball if you want, so long as you move it before you make your stroke. BTW, rather than do whatever you're doing, get some ball markers like this and you won't need to use your putter: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/278516/width/640/height/320][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/278516/width/640/height/320[/IMG][/URL]

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4071 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    Carl's Place
    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • They weren't necessarily short - I don't remember the exact specifics of all of it, but some of them were missing a little left or right or both. Day 1 they were landing on the edge and kicking on, where day 2 they were just missing and kicking down into the bunkers and did it a lot. I think all told I actually went into bunkers on 8 holes. Some of them were not good shots. Like a few examples, on 8, the pin was in the back. I hit it solidly, but pulled it and it went long, over the bunker into long grass. I had the ball in sandy earth with long grass around it and about a foot below my feet. That next shot I tried to do what I could but it went into the bunker in front of me. Into a footprint. That one I dug out of the footprint, but still in the bunker. Got that one out of the bunker, but into the fringe grass in front of me. Chipped that one on a bit hard and two putts later made a 7. Another was on 14. The flag was on the little finger of green front left. I tried to play a little past it and a little right. Shoved it maybe 10 yards right of where I wanted to and the carry over the bunker gets longer the further right you go and that one hit the grass between the green and the bunker and came back down into the sand, left it in there and didn't get up and down on the next one. I think carrywise it carried about as far as I was planning on it doing so. Another was on 6, leaked my drive a little right into the fairway bunker. Hit a nearly good shot from there that went a little left and a little short and kicked into the bunker front left. That was a strike thing and just a hard shot. Did similar on 18. Drive in the right bunker, slightly heavy second that hit the bank between green and bunker again and kicked back into the sand. I think the tiredness manifested more as not squaring the face up so well and less as slowing down.
    • Depends on how short you were coming up on these shots. A bit more wind? Also, maybe you were swinging at 2-3 mph slower the next day.  I think the biggest thing is not adjusting. Like making assuming your stock shot is not enough and taking 1 club up. Not sure what type of adjustments you were making in your decision making. 
    • No one should measure a joint mobility away from that joint. If you go to physical therapy, they are not measuring your knee mobility based on your midline. It is based at the joint. Shoulder mobility should be measured in reference to the shoulder joint. 
    • He's using a driver swing, while I used the iron swing. Bryson goes from about 65° B to 15° B, hence the 50°. If you bend your right elbow, you're going to pull your hands across your chest some. Conversely, if you abduct your right arm and hold onto a grip with your left arm, you can see how extending the right elbow as we do in the golf swing during the downswing will "pull" the right shoulder/humerus forward (adducting it, as going from 65° to 15° of abduction is). Even people who pull their right shoulder WAY too far around them eventually get it "back in front" when their right arm/elbow extends. So, such a motion shows up as shoulder adduction even though the movement that causes it is just widening the trail elbow. The left hand on the grip almost "pulls" the hands forward as the left arm can't stretch much (there's some shoulder protraction, but that's almost maxed out at P4). Oh, I downloaded it and watched it (and commented there) before he blocked me. It's what led to him posting the comment in the "update" above. 😄  Single shoulder range of 75°, and that's going out well into the follow-through. 50° Max range up to impact. Manavian's video is bad. He keeps saying "midline" which is just a horrible way to look at it. He also kept saying that the club was moving that amount — also wrong. Adding left and right together is really freaking dumb. Another golf instructor said "That's like saying the player has 100 degrees of knee bend (adding left knee bend to right knee bend) 🤦‍♂️" (similar to what the biomechanist said about squatting). Also, see my post above about elbow bend. That's why Plummer’s alignment stick demo is so intellectually dishonest. A golfer can't get anywhere near that position on the left with his left hand on the alignment stick (quoted below).  
    • That makes no sense at all.  so, I watched that Instagram. Here is a summary...  Bryson.... Address: Trail Shoulder 0 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 65-deg abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 15-deg abduction. P9: 10 degrees adduction. Rory... Address: Trail Shoulder 16 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 26 degrees abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 0 degrees abduction.  P9: 18 degrees of adduction.  DJ... Address: Trail Shoulder 4 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 42 degrees abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 2 degrees abduction.  P9: 15 degrees of adduction.  Their point is that arm doesn't stay on the trail side. That the arms have to get across the chest from P4 to P9. I mean they do. What matters is the rate of which it happens relative to the position of the swing. The trail shoulder at P9 is not abducted a lot. The range of that total abduction movement is like 40 to 70 degrees. Bryson might be an outlier. Rory might be an outlier as well.  A couple of points.  1. None of them had any adduction at impact. So, this tells me the trail arms stays on the trail side of the body at impact. Is it moving towards lead shoulder, yes. It doesn't happen till post impact. The right side of the body is moving towards the target, so the arms don't have to as much as people think.  2. Trail shoulder adduction from Impact to P9 is 18 to 25 degrees.  3. P9 adduction of the trail shoulder is only about 2 to 12 degrees more adducted than at address. The arms/hands stay in front of the chest a long-time post impact. If Rory, from his address position just rotated his body towards the target and raised up his arms so he is at P9. He basically didn't have to move his trail arm further across his chest than where he started at address. Visualize that for a bit. I bet for people who tend to stall and drag their arms across their body to hit the ball, that would emphasize how much the arms stay in front of the body and how much you have to turn.             
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.