Favorite NFL Team

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by meenman

Toomer needs to be drug tested - there are a few QBs out there that were great without a title - but they managed to win one later in their careers (elway comes to mind even though i always disliked him)

Romo is an average QB at best until he does something to prove otherwise - and with Jerry Jones as him GM, he is not likely to get that opportunity.

maybe its not too late for toomer to hop on that concussion class action suit, bc obviously he has major cognitive deficits.  this is a qb driven league.  year in and year out romo has had more weapns at WR, and has done NOTHING with them.  great qbs win with the talent they're given.

maybe toomer forgot the all important question: which of the two qbs testicles shrink like raisins when the $ is on the line?  romo's.  1-3 career playoff record vs 8-3 career playoff record to include 6 wins away from home, and 2 RINGS... who would you choose?

[Kapanda]

Yeah, because Giants D= Cowboys D

Giants RBs = Cowboys RBs

Neither Eli nor Tony are Peytons. Romo has consistently performed. The Giants are just better than the Cowboys.

But of course, the New York Eli's have two rings so...

[ZigZag]

As a cowboys fan. For Pure talent Romo is bettter. However Eli has got the rings. Plus Eli has done it with average teams. I'll take Eli over his brother every day of the week.

[Kapanda]

... you think Eli is better than Peyton?

[meenman]

... you think Eli is better than Peyton?

To those that think stats are what makes a great QB, maybe not. But in the end Eli will be the better Manning in the history books.

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by meenman

To those that think stats are what makes a great QB, maybe not. But in the end Eli will be the better Manning in the history books.

i honestly don't think any rational, unbiased football fan can argue with this.  two stats matter: wins and loses when the chips are stacked the highest...period.

the giants won this year with a defense that was essentially held together like scotch tape an bubble gum patching a busted levee.  the MAIN reason they won was because of clutch play form eli.

[ZigZag]

Peyton had stacked teams. Only won 1 superbowl

Eli had average teams has won 2 superbowls

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by ZigZag

Peyton has stacked teams. Only won 1 superbowl

Eli had average teams has won 2 superbowls

That's the worst possible argument you could have made.

Colts got the worst record last year without Peyton, while with him they have been perennial contenders.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Infamous 273

i honestly don't think any rational, unbiased football fan can argue with this.  two stats matter: wins and loses when the chips are stacked the highest...period.

the giants won this year with a defense that was essentially held together like scotch tape an bubble gum patching a busted levee.  the MAIN reason they won was because of clutch play form eli.

Yeah, Peyton hasn't just been a hof lock for years now.

To say that your irrational argument is the most rational... by the definition of irrationality, it makes no sense to compare team stats to analyse how good an individual is. None whatsoever.

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Yeah, Peyton hasn't just been a hof lock for years now.

To say that your irrational argument is the most rational... by the definition of irrationality, it makes no sense to compare team stats to analyse how good an individual is. None whatsoever.

really?  then why did you say, " Colts got the worst record last year without Peyton, while with him they have been perennial contenders." isn't a teams W-L record a team stat?  i'll let you bow out of this discussion now if you would like, or you can keep contradicting yourself.

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

That's the worst possible argument you could have made.

Colts got the worst record last year without Peyton, while with him they have been perennial contenders.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Infamous 273

really?  then why did you say, "Colts got the worst record last year without Peyton, while with him they have been perennial contenders."  isn't a teams W-L record a team stat?  i'll let you bow out of this discussion now if you would like, or you can keep contradicting yourself.

uhh.. context??!

[ZigZag]

I have both Romo and Eli in my top 5 with Brady Rodgers and Brees. I Can't rate Peyton atm due to his neck. Once he plays and will likely play well he would slide in the top 5 for Tony.

[turtleback]

The problem with what Toomer said was his conclusion, not his facts.  He said "For me, if I wanted a guy that is going to throw less interceptions, (be) more productive, higher completion percentage, I'm going to go with Tony Romo," said Toomer, apparently ignoring the fact Manning delivered him his only Super Bowl ring in 2008. "At crunch time, he's not as good as Eli, but every other time, he's pretty darn good."

That is completely true.  No doubt that Romo can put up better overall stats for the regular season.  But, there is also no doubt that when the chips have been down, Eli has come through an Romo has not.  Romo misses an open receiver to ice the game - Eli puts the ball right on the money in a very tight spot to get the game winning drive off and running.  Yes Romo has the  better stats,  But do you want stats or do you want money in the clutch?

It is also a fact that in the playoffs Romo's stats have not lived up to his pre-season stats.  His Passer Rating in the playoffs is only around 80 - well BELOW his regular season rating.  Eli on the other hand has elevated his play in the playoffs.  His overall playoff Passer Rating is around 89, well ABOVE his overall passer rating.  In 2011 his regular season passer rating was 92.9 but it was 103.3 in the playoffs.  In 2007 is regular season passer rating was 73.9 but his playoff passer rating was 95.7.

One last thing about stats that should be very telling to Cowboy fans.  Troy Aikman was the very essence of a QB who did not put up spectacular stats in the regular season (81.6 career passer rating) but who consistently came up big in the playoffs and led his team to championships.  Eli is the functional successor to Aikman.  IN almost every case Aikman's post-season passer rating was better than his regular season passer rating.  Just like Eli.  Romo has never had that happen.  His passer rating for the playoffs has always been less than his regular season passer rating.

If you want a QB for your fantasy football team by all means pick Romo.  If you want one for a real football team to play real football in the NFL, go with Eli.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by turtleback

The problem with what Toomer said was his conclusion, not his facts.  He said "For me, if I wanted a guy that is going to throw less interceptions, (be) more productive, higher completion percentage, I'm going to go with Tony Romo," said Toomer, apparently ignoring the fact Manning delivered him his only Super Bowl ring in 2008. "At crunch time, he's not as good as Eli, but every other time, he's pretty darn good."

That is completely true.  No doubt that Romo can put up better overall stats for the regular season.  But, there is also no doubt that when the chips have been down, Eli has come through an Romo has not.  Romo misses an open receiver to ice the game - Eli puts the ball right on the money in a very tight spot to get the game winning drive off and running.  Yes Romo has the  better stats,  But do you want stats or do you want money in the clutch?

It is also a fact that in the playoffs Romo's stats have not lived up to his pre-season stats.  His Passer Rating in the playoffs is only around 80 - well BELOW his regular season rating.  Eli on the other hand has elevated his play in the playoffs.  His overall playoff Passer Rating is around 89, well ABOVE his overall passer rating.  In 2011 his regular season passer rating was 92.9 but it was 103.3 in the playoffs.  In 2007 is regular season passer rating was 73.9 but his playoff passer rating was 95.7.

One last thing about stats that should be very telling to Cowboy fans.  Troy Aikman was the very essence of a QB who did not put up spectacular stats in the regular season (81.6 career passer rating) but who consistently came up big in the playoffs and led his team to championships.  Eli is the functional successor to Aikman.  IN almost every case Aikman's post-season passer rating was better than his regular season passer rating.  Just like Eli.  Romo has never had that happen.  His passer rating for the playoffs has always been less than his regular season passer rating.

If you want a QB for your fantasy football team by all means pick Romo.  If you want one for a real football team to play real football in the NFL, go with Eli.

Reasonable pov, though I disagree. My personal opinion, the "clutch" factor is overrated, and it is probably valued more by commercial commentators and fans than by talent evaluators. Simply because it is too situation-specific, and it is too hard to sincerely tell how much of it is down to a player's innate "clutch" ability, and how much is down to either it simply being one of many bad plays (which every player of every caliber has), or a lot of times just terrible luck.

I can accept your argument, but stats are much better at evaluating talent. And talent is really and truly what counts. The better player is measured by what his performance ability is like, and a handful of plays cannot show that. Granted, stats are nowhere near the be all and end all, much more important is actual tape. I just disagree with fans who put such a premium on clutch. It's too superficial a trait to consider, unless everything else is identical.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by turtleback

+1

Born and raised a Giants fan.  An obsessive one.  But I disagree about the weak NFC East.  I think it is as strong as any division in the league.  And our upcoming out of division schedule is a beast.  Ironically we have the toughest upcoming schedule and our vanquished foes from New England have one of the easiest.  But that is OK, we'll be battle-hardened when the playoffs come.  And we came out strong after the 2007 championship until a certain WR who will remain nameless ruined the season by shooting himself.

Do you participate in any NY Giants discussion board?  I do a couple of them.

Originally Posted by meenman

The Super Bowl Champion NY Giants. Of course this team generally does not do well when expectations are high, but with a weak NFC East, we have a shot at breaking that trend.

Good to see Big Blue fans across the country.

Born and raised in NY. Suffered through Tarkenton and Pisarcik years. Revelled in the years of the Enigma (Parcells).

Every year Big Blue is underated while the 'Dream Team' and the star-studded Cowgirls get accolades, and this coming year should be no different.  I think the fact that Eli is finally good at moving and reacting in the pocket will make it another good season for the Gmen.

[ZigZag]

Cowboys will win the NFC East. Eagles will be a wildcard team imo. Love our new CB's. Just Hope they stay healthy. I have one huge issue with the cowboys. Jason Garrett.

[jetsknicks1]

J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS!