Taking Lessons and Getting Worse Before Getting Better

[LovinItAll]

This came up in another thread, but before I write my opinion/conclusion on whether players generally get worse before they get better when taking lessons to modify their swing, I'd like to hear the experiences of other people. A couple of things: - I'm not talking about getting better after receiving a quick tip. I'm talking about getting better while making fundamental changes to your swing - For me, there is only one metric that meters re: getting better, and that's your golf score. You may take a lesson and add 10-20 yards to your irons, but that alone doesn't constitute getting better if it doesn't translate into lower scores. If adjusting to your new distances takes a few weeks before your scores improve, you have either stayed the same or gotten worse before getting better. Your experiences at different levels would be nice to hear, too. For example, maybe you were a 25HC once, took lessons, had an experience, then took lessons again as a 10 HC. Hope that makes sense.

[soon_tourpro]

Hacker for 20+ years.

started to work technique 2 years ago, even took lessons.

last year I just find the modern swing would kill my back, spent this winter 7 months to build feedback and variation to build my swing from ground up based upon Mike Austin principles.

I am now 4 to 5 clubs longer than I was 3 years ago.

My handicap is now 8 and gone down a bit the last 2 years, shot personal best 74 last year and now once the new swing is there I need time adjusting to the distance, its mentally mostly due to having 170y to go, pulling up PW and knowing its the right club takes some time.

I am having bad health which dont allow me the time I need to practice but as far I can tell, I be shooting under par during the summer at some point.

I am 48 years old.

[nevets88]

If the instruction is effective, it runs the gamut. Some people get better immediately. Some people need an adjustment period. It's not a how much worse you get question. Is a how much you eventually get better. So you have a couple of weeks or months where you score badly. Then that's followed by career bests. Certainly worth sticking through the bad scores.

[LovinItAll]

It's not a how much worse you get question. Is a how much you eventually get better.

I don't disagree at all, but that's not the question. Any swing changes that lead to better scores are a positive thing, even if they take months to ingrain. 'Eventually getting better' would seem to imply that you believe that weeks or months of bad/not-as-good scores means you feel some (many?) get worse before they get better, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is that what you're saying? There are instructors who feel that 'getting worse before you get better' is not true for the majority of students they teach. As I said, I have an opinion, but I don't want to color this thread with my personal thoughts before hearing what others have to say.

[1puttit]

Do you get worse before you get better when you take lessons? I think it depends

There are some lessons, like putting or shortgame, where you get better immediately. Fix a fundamental flaw in someone's putting technique and they will start shaving strokes immediately.

Now for full swing I think you almost always get worse (score wise) before you get better. And it's not the instructor or student's fault. Say you have a nasty slice. You take some lessons, get your weight forward, and start drawing the ball. Maybe on the range, hitting 7 iron after 7 iron, you can draw the ball 9 out of 10 times. But 1 out of 10 times you revert to your old swing out of habit and hit your slice. You go out to play and now the challenge is to commit to your new swing/move and not fall back into old habits. Easy to say, hard to do. You're switching clubs each shot instead of mindlessly grooving your new swing on the range. Even if you do manage to commit to your changes during the round at some point your old habits are going to crop up and instead of hitting that draw down the right side with the water hazard your slice shows up and you plunk one in the water. If you hadn't taken lessons you probably wouldn't be in the water because you would have played to the left to allow for your slice. So even if you're striking the ball better, you might not score better until the new swing becomes habit.

[GlasgowsGreen]

I started playing golf with my friends (all mid to late 20's) around 2 years ago. From the outset I was by far the worst golfer with zero natural ability.

However I have no kids/ more disposable income that most of my friends so have been able to invest in lessons, training aids etc. Whilst I have certainly progressed in the last 2 years, it has been 2 steps back for every 3 forward! The problem with getting lessons is that your swing is constantly adjusting. This lack of consistency, along with 10,000 thoughts going through your head every time you swing a club, is an absolute killer out on the course.

There's been many days when I have been unable to hit the ball off the mat, which is hard to fathom when you have been putting so much time and effort into learning the proper technique. I've certainly came close to chucking it many a time.

One or two of my friends have (snidely) commented that they would have expected me to be a lot better than I am given the amount of time and money I have invested in my golf. However, I'm sure a trained eye would see that I have actually made a lot of progress.

Golf is by far the most technical and complicated sport I have ever come across. It's hard sometimes to even understand what you are supposed to do, nevermind apply it.

Bloody addictive though!

[mchepp]

I think whether or not you get worse is determined by the change you are making. If it is a big change then yes you might start playing worse because it is such an unnatural move to what you did before. Sometimes it can be a small change and you start getting better right away.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

I don't disagree at all, but that's not the question. Any swing changes that lead to better scores are a positive thing, even if they take months to ingrain. 'Eventually getting better' would seem to imply that you believe that weeks or months of bad/not-as-good scores means you feel some (many?) get worse before they get better, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is that what you're saying?

There are instructors who feel that 'getting worse before you get better' is not true for the majority of students they teach. As I said, I have an opinion, but I don't want to color this thread with my personal thoughts before hearing what others have to say.

I would agree with the majority of students get better right away statement. I think it's harder for experienced players to get better quicker and most people taking lessons are probably less experienced, so they have room for a larger amount of improvement.

[soon_tourpro]

Normally most instructors make the golfer worse. Its a focus on technique instead of playing the game.

All my last 7 months since december been focus on deep practice and variation to build a feedback loop to increase my technique to become better and better.

The way I hit the ball last time, was pretty special.

I dont find any trainer being able to do that.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by soon_tourpro

Hacker for 20+ years.

started to work technique 2 years ago, even took lessons.

last year I just find the modern swing would kill my back, spent this winter 7 months to build feedback and variation to build my swing from ground up based upon Mike Austin principles.

I am now 4 to 5 clubs longer than I was 3 years ago.

My handicap is now 8 and gone down a bit the last 2 years, shot personal best 74 last year and now once the new swing is there I need time adjusting to the distance, its mentally mostly due to having 170y to go, pulling up PW and knowing its the right club takes some time.

I am having bad health which dont allow me the time I need to practice but as far I can tell, I be shooting under par during the summer at some point.

I am 48 years old.

You hit your PW 170 yards?

[xSmithy]

First post, something ive got a bit of experience in. I've had lessons with two different pros this year, 4 with a pro working only on the range that would give me little tips on how to improve my swing and become more consistent with my motion but not really changing anything just working with what I had - I saw little improvements on the course but still had those inconsistencies which restricted my ability to shoot low scores. I've had one lesson with another pro who records your swing etc and he butchered my posture said it was wrong and needed to be completely changed before I could work on intricacies and improving subtle aspects, for a few rounds I was terrible, went backwards massively as it felt so foreign but I eventually adjusted and now I have never hit the ball better and more consistently including pbs over 9 (-1) and my handicap coming down 2 shots in 4 competitions. Would I have achieved this working only with the first pro, who knows? Probably unlikely in such a short space of time but it's obvious which pro I would recommend highest, completely changed my game in one lesson and gave me the fundamentals to take around 7 shots from my average score and improving rapidly!

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by GaryH

You hit your PW 170 yards?

Yes.

Between 150-180 it varies due to what shot is needed.

I use softer shafts so I tend to get a little higher ballflight.

I was a short hitter until reworking my swing.

Half inch shorter shaft due to my height.
I sometimes stand there, knowing I once hit a 7i or such or even a 4i hybrid, and then look at the current club and ask, dude what did happen?
My driver/spoon isnt up to snuff yet, did ok last time at 270yard or so but still adjustment in progress with the longer club, in may I coudlnt even hit driver at all and now are getting it down where I want it to be.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by soon_tourpro

Yes.

Between 150-180 it varies due to what shot is needed.

I use softer shafts so I tend to get a little higher ballflight.

I was a short hitter until reworking my swing.

Half inch shorter shaft due to my height.

I sometimes stand there, knowing I once hit a 7i or such or even a 4i hybrid, and then look at the current club and ask, dude what did happen?

My driver/spoon isnt up to snuff yet, did ok last time at 270yard or so but still adjustment in progress with the longer club, in may I coudlnt even hit driver at all and now are getting it down where I want it to be.

That's impressive.  I'm going to google Mike Austin!

[Roblar]

Quote:

You hit your PW 170 yards?

The current exchange rate is about 1.5 Swedish PW to 1 American.

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by Roblar

Quote:

The current exchange rate is about 1.5 Swedish PW to 1 American.

hehe

Well, there is a lot of difference I am sure, clubhead loft, shaft, and such.

However, the distance is there. which isnt all candy and dandy due to distance control now is off.

had 120y to middle of green and thought I use my 56w, and smoked it over green, I thought gee, next time, 52w and a punch shot.

I re-worked my technique, I was a short hitter, everything from 180y with driver to 220y.

I hit my 7i where I now use my 52w.

Doing this work which is the thing about the Op post, has it let me post lower scores and play better golf?
yes.
Even though its not done yet, as I still have left overs from the old 25 years of hacking.
But the way I hit the ball thursday was pure joy.

[Jeffrey71]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

This came up in another thread, but before I write my opinion/conclusion on whether players generally get worse before they get better when taking lessons to modify their swing, I'd like to hear the experiences of other people. A couple of things:

- I'm not talking about getting better after receiving a quick tip. I'm talking about getting better while making fundamental changes to your swing

- For me, there is only one metric that meters re: getting better, and that's your golf score. You may take a lesson and add 10-20 yards to your irons, but that alone doesn't constitute getting better if it doesn't translate into lower scores. If adjusting to your new distances takes a few weeks before your scores improve, you have either stayed the same or gotten worse before getting better.

Your experiences at different levels would be nice to hear, too. For example, maybe you were a 25HC once, took lessons, had an experience, then took lessons again as a 10 HC. Hope that makes sense.

I started playing again this February after not really playing for about 20-24 years. In those years I might have played 15 times. 2 years ago I tried to get back into golf, joined a club and tried to play every week. I had trouble with my fairway wood and my driver, slicing. After about a month I took a lesson from the club pro. He asked to see me hit a few balls, and said he could tell that at one time I had been "taught" a good swing. He said my weight was shifting to my right side on the take away and I wasn't getting it back. He showed me a couple drills to help, and of course added the only way to fix it is practice. There where immediate results. I went from a center to right slice (sometimes more extreme than others) to a pretty little right to left draw.

2 -3 years later I still use the drills and it has taken 6 points off my handicap. I've gone from shooting 100-115 to shooting anywhere from 87(lowest round) to 96. Usually I shoot around 90.

[Pablo68]

Hello all (first post),

I think it all depends on what shape your swing is in when you start the lessons. If you're hitting the ball decently but want lessons to get more accuracy or power, you may just get better if it's a small adjustment.

If your swing has a flaw(s) that requires a timing adjustment to compensate, I would think you'd get worse (maybe a lot) if you tried changing that.

With my youngest kid turning 18, I am just getting back into golf after nearly 7 years away (went golfing about 5 times in that span). I've been working hard on my swing and short game (range/practice green nearly everyday for at least 1 hour), trying to only encorporate changes that are sound. I've found a couple things and now am hitting the ball decently while shooting around 90 with a couple rounds in the low 80s. I was tempted to keep fiddling with my swing to make it a text book swing but I think I'm going to 'love the one I'm with' for right now and then come winter, revamp it. I want to enjoy my play time right now and just try to work on scoring.

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I was tempted to keep fiddling with my swing to make it a text book swing but I think I'm going to 'love the one I'm with' for right now and then come winter, revamp it. I want to enjoy my play time right now and just try to work on scoring.

If one ask me, changing the swing if your a high handicap make sense, your likely to have several compensations and no feel for the proper motion.

I surely did.

If your a low handicap its a thougher choice, you developed feel and how people teach the golf swing will make you a lot worse before its get better unless you get insanely lucky with a great pro.

Textbook is wrong IMO:

Feel + evidence is needed to produce consistent result.

Feel to replicate the motion, evidence to take note your doing it right.