commonalities of pros..........maybe not

[logman]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I took a look at that LPG swing, and I don't think I could do it. Just cause you remove one pivot point (the wrist hinge) doesn't mean that it will be easy and automatic, especeially for me after all these years of conventional swinging.

And, it looks god awful fugly too.

Removal of the wrist is huge in terms of accuracy. You're right about all the years of conventional swing though, my brain just wants to cock my wrists and make a big shoulder turn. My experience.......so far, is all good

[logman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Well, you come on and berate another manner of instruction while promoting another.

You're an infomercial. You have bias, you are prejudiced to the manner in which you play.

You would have more credibility if you'd simply begun a thread saying I've found a way for me to play that helps me.

But no, you've got to slam someone else, and then tell people you'll never be good enough to approach a pro, so don't try.

Bollocks.

Geez  Mr. Des., Don't be so defensive. And man,I didn't "slam", I'm not selling anything, I'm not involved in the golf industry .....at all........... And I'm not PATRICK

[Rocket Man]

I think its clear that logman is a bit caught up with the alternative swing websites.They pretty much all start out by asking the same questions such as "Have you taken lessons by Ledbetter,harmon and Hank haney,have practiced for 10,000 hrs,read 15 golf books watched 20 dvd's and you still suck? Dont feel bad about yourself its not your fault!! The fact is that only.00001% of the population can master the traditional golf swing because it is so complicated with almost impossible feats of timing,coordination,and athletic movements that only a few gifted people can do.So on and so on and blah blah blah.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

I'll try and characterize it into the swing that's....Straight front arm, interlocking/overlapping grip, big torso turn, club release, wrist lag, lower body drive etc etc there are another 100 thjings that characterize the swing.....and I reckon that's the problem.....it's complicated, and any small grip problem, timing issue, tempo, weight transfer, squaring, casting.........(you get my point) can make things go wrong . Any one of 100 problems can turn the traditional swing into a frustrating impossible mess.

100 problems? Yet there are thousands of golfers who break 80 regularly. Some don't play more than once a month.

The swing you're building has a very low ceiling. You'll never be very good golfing like that. Most golfers are seeking a higher-performance golf swing because they're not content to break 90 on a "good day." They're not content to drive the ball 200 yards.

I saw an LPG video with a guy hitting a driver 250 sitting in a chair. Great. I can show you a video of JB Holmes hitting it 330 from his knees. Or Jamie Sadlowski hitting his putter 350.

Originally Posted by logman

Just a point about my own game. I decided to look for something else after building a swing with more and more lag in it. Lags great isn't it? NO its not. It's the biggest load of bollocks out there.

Where in 5SK do we talk about "lag"? The shaft has to be behind the lead arm at impact - clubs aren't designed to hit the ball while they're ASCENDING, after all - but besides that we don't talk about lag. I doubt very much you were actually getting more lag, and you certainly weren't getting it properly if the ball was going all over the lot.

Originally Posted by logman

And when you think about it it's not really surprising. How can a hacker playing of about 12 expect to square a clubface that goes from open to closed in 90 degrees of swing .....at full power.....on limited skill and with very limited practice time and expect to be consistent.

And yet, thousands and even millions of golfers manage to get the clubface back to pretty much the same exact position time and time again. Virtually everyone has a fairly repeating golf swing. It just lacks several (or all) of the 5 commonalities among the game's greatest players. It's clear you don't understand 5SK at all, and just want to bash it.

That's fine. I'm glad you're happy with your LPG system. Most golfers would not be. They don't want to hit the low ceiling it puts over their heads.0

Originally Posted by logman

If you could take just a couple of those variables out of your swing how much better would it be.

There are an almost infinite number of variables among the game's best players. There are only five commonalities. :)

Originally Posted by logman

I guess it depends on the variables you take out of your game.....and what you replace them with. It doesn't have to be a loss of overall power. That 40 kilogram Japanese lady that I invoked before might have improved her distance if she removed the traditional grip......and replaced it with a split grip.

Unlikely. The best thing she can do is find the center of the clubface. The best thing anyone can do at some point is find the center of the clubface. Striking the ball solidly is the first thing to playing good golf (#1, #2, #3). Then controlling the flight (#4, #5).

Originally Posted by logman

Lag is one of those things that good amateur players always seem to be chasing trying to get that last 5 meters out of their swings. But I reckon it's a waste of time. sure it works but its akin to cracking a whip, where the snap at the last split second gives you the distance. But it also gives you an incredible timing problem. the results are inaccuracy.

That's not correct. Virtually everyone flips. You cannot strike the ball crisply, solidly flipping at it. Lag - as it pertains to the shaft lining up with the lead arm at or just after impact - is critical to improving at golf.

Originally Posted by logman

I have NO lag in the swing I'm learning, I have straightness in my irons that I've never had before, I have No back pain(yeah!!!)......hopefully I can translate better ball striking into lower scoring when the good weather comes around.

You're defining lag differently because if you're striking the ball solidly you're kidding yourself if you think you don't have "lag." If the shaft has passed your left arm prior to impact you're not going to be a good golfer.

If you fail to use the wrists, you'll lack power. That's what you seem to believe lag is about. Which is fine, but going to a "lag-free" swing is again going to put a fairly low ceiling on your ability to improve.

As I said, if you're happy, good for you. Most people would not be content to swing like you.

[newtogolf]

Logmans posts remind me of my years when I was into bowling and bowling leagues.  There would be numerous debates on straight ball versus a ball that hooks, full finger grip versus fingertip.  Same arguments too, average bowlers would be best served to learn to use a full finger ball and throw it straight because the finger tip balls and big hooks are for pro's.  General consensus was if you just wanted to be a 160 bowler, full finger, straight balls would work fine.  If you wanted to break 200 consistently you had to learn to throw a hook and using a fingertip ball was the best.  I took the easy route then, threw a straight ball and maintained a 150 - 160 average.  My brother learned to throw a hook, bowled a few perfect games so far and maintains a 210+ average.   If I had to do it over I'd learn to throw a hook.

The golf swing is obviously more complicated than throwing a bowling bowl but the overall philosophy applies.  If you find a "pro" swing too difficult to master given your available time to dedicate to it then alternative, less demanding swing methods that have lower ceilings will work for you.  The problem comes in if you ever want to improve beyond what your current alternate swing method allows for you're going to have to start from scratch.

[logman]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Logmans posts remind me of my years when I was into bowling and bowling leagues.  There would be numerous debates on straight ball versus a ball that hooks, full finger grip versus fingertip.  Same arguments too, average bowlers would be best served to learn to use a full finger ball and throw it straight because the finger tip balls and big hooks are for pro's.  General consensus was if you just wanted to be a 160 bowler, full finger, straight balls would work fine.  If you wanted to break 200 consistently you had to learn to throw a hook and using a fingertip ball was the best.  I took the easy route then, threw a straight ball and maintained a 150 - 160 average.  My brother learned to throw a hook, bowled a few perfect games so far and maintains a 210+ average.   If I had to do it over I'd learn to throw a hook.

The golf swing is obviously more complicated than throwing a bowling bowl but the overall philosophy applies.  If you find a "pro" swing too difficult to master given your available time to dedicate to it then alternative, less demanding swing methods that have lower ceilings will work for you.  The problem comes in if you ever want to improve beyond what your current alternate swing method allows for you're going to have to start from scratch.

I don't accept your characterization of a "lower ceiling". Yes, i've dropped 20 meters off my driver length, but I'm definitely straighter. I reckon I'll get that distance back with time.

"And yet, thousands and even millions of golfers manage to get the clubface back to pretty much the same exact position time and time again. Virtually everyone has a fairly repeating golf swing. It just lacks several (or all) of the 5 commonalities among the game's greatest players. It's clear you don't understand 5SK at all, and just want to bash it"

Since when is questioning"bashing"?.So they all just" lack one or more of the commonalities".The Idea that you can add up all the good points of the pros swings divide them by the number of pros......and bang there you have it..... the secrets to playing better golf is absurd. Just how much can I move my head in the swing before it becomes detrimental to my game? If I move my head AT ALL will my game be worse. Would a neck brace allow me to play better golf?

[logman]

"If you fail to use the wrists, you'll lack power. That's what you seem to believe lag is about. Which is fine, but going to a "lag-free" swing is again going to put a fairly low ceiling on your ability to improve."

I have NO wrist lag, I have elbow lag. I have the power benefits of lag without the inconsistency of wrist lag.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

Since when is questioning"bashing"?.So they all just" lack one or more of the commonalities".The Idea that you can add up all the good points of the pros swings divide them by the number of pros......and bang there you have it..... the secrets to playing better golf is absurd.

What on earth are you even talking about at this point? Who had that idea?

There are FIVE THINGS that are common among the game's best players. That's it.

You're well beyond the point where you're making any sense at all, and this thread is now locked.