2nd Time I Posted This Still Can't Hit a Draw

[iacas]

  camper6 said:

Originally Posted by camper6

A draw has no backspin on it so to speak.

100% nonsense.

Sorry.

[LovinItAll]

  camper6 said:

I still don't understand why anyone wants to hit a draw into a green unless you are going around a tree. A draw has no backspin on it so to speak. I mean it looks pretty and all but other than that, it's not something to strive for. Start hitting a few duck hooks and you will find out what I am talking about. Or ask Ben Hogan.

Kenny Perry hits nothing but draws and holds greens just fine. He can spin the ball just fine, too. There's a difference between a low hook and what I assume the OP is after, which would be a higher trajectory with whatever iron that he happens to draw. There isn't anything wrong with wanting to learn to work the ball both ways. I think it's unusual that he can draw driver but not irons, though. Driver was the last club I learned to draw on command.

[Zeph]

You have to differentiate between a pull-draw and a push-draw. That draws don't have enough backspin and won't hold greens is just wrong. A pull-fade will not hold a green as well as a push-draw. Nobody is talking about playing for duck-hooks. A push-draw is high and lands as soft you can get it.

[Jakester23]

I know I'm not a good golfer. I shot shotguns competitively for a we years and learned that you should always be working on something to improve your overall game. Being able to work the balls both ways is something I think will eventually make me a better.

[camper6]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

100% nonsense.

Sorry.

You should be sorry.

Key words.  'so to speak'.

[camper6]

  Zeph said:

Originally Posted by Zeph

You have to differentiate between a pull-draw and a push-draw. That draws don't have enough backspin and won't hold greens is just wrong. A pull-fade will not hold a green as well as a push-draw.

Nobody is talking about playing for duck-hooks. A push-draw is high and lands as soft you can get it.

i'm not saying that you shouldn't learn to draw the ball with an iron.

If you can hit it straight instead of drawing it you will be better off.

[iacas]

  camper6 said:

Originally Posted by camper6

You should be sorry.

Key words.  'so to speak'.

No, there are no "key words" there unless "so to speak" means "take the opposite of what I said."

Even a duck hook has backspin (it's not a playable shot because the landing angle is severely acute). Plenty of PGA Tour pros hit draws and do just fine with them.

[Jakester23]

Hitting it straight is harder than shaping something especially with a long iron I would rather try to shape something and hit it straight than try to go right at pin trying to hit it straight and miss hit it then which knows where you'll end up.

[123Putt]

I tried the whole aiming the club face slightly to the right of the target and aiming more right of the target but it didn't work very well. Personally I just adjust my swing plane by tucking my right elbow in on the downswing creating in-to-out.

[AwYea]

Make some practice swings where you feel like you're swinging to the right and finishing high. Then put some balls on a tee, teed up pretty high(atleast a 1/2" to 1") and hit balls while concentrating on swinging to the right and finishing high in your follow through.

You may have other problems in your swing that don't allow you to hit a draw, like a bad grip or poor hip and shoulder alignment, but this is the BEST drill for learning on how to swing the club from the inside out.

Warning: Learning to hit a draw isn't all what it's cracked up to be. You're almost guranteed to overdue it and eventually start hitting duck hooks and shanks by getting the club too flat and laid off in your backswing.

[LovinItAll]

  AwYea said:

Warning: Learning to hit a draw isn't all what it's cracked up to be. You're almost guranteed to overdue it and eventually start hitting duck hooks and shanks by getting the club too flat and laid off in your backswing.

This. I can work it both ways, but my miss is worse hitting a draw. My best rounds have come playing a shallow fade, but I'm sure I hit a draw sometime during those rounds. If, for whatever reason, I want to take a big cut at the ball, I'm almost always going to play a fade. I can really get after it and still feel like I have everything under control. That's just me, though. Others may feel the same way working a draw. I still think the OP should look at what he's doing to draw driver since he said he could do that.

[camper6]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

No, there are no "key words" there unless "so to speak" means "take the opposite of what I said."

Even a duck hook has backspin (it's not a playable shot because the landing angle is severely acute). Plenty of PGA Tour pros hit draws and do just fine with them.

So to speak means as opposed to hitting a straight shot or a fade as compared to a draw.

Are you going to tell me that a draw has more backspin off an iron, the same, or less?

And what scientific principle and observation are you going to apply to prove your point?  Every shot has backspin on it or you wouldn't be able to get it into the air.

Plenty of PGA Tour pros hit draws and do just fine with them and some do not and do just fine as well.

Ben Hogan learned to fade the ball and in his own words 'the ball came down as light as a feather'.

I read that in Life magazine many, many, moons ago.

[iacas]

  camper6 said:

Originally Posted by camper6

Are you going to tell me that a draw has more backspin off an iron, the same, or less?

It can easily have more backspin. A push-draw is hit with more loft on the clubface than a pull-fade.

This isn't really a topic we can "debate" because it's not purely a matter of opinion. There are some very clear facts available here, and you seem to be unaware of them.

Imagine a swing path that's 4° left of the target, a clubface with 26° dynamic loft, 94 MPH clubhead speed, and a clubface angle that's 2° left of the target, perfect contact, AoA is -3°, etc.

Is that a righty's fade or a lefty's draw? Trick question: you don't know, and you could produce those characteristics from either side of the ball.

[mvmac]

  camper6 said:

Originally Posted by camper6

Ben Hogan learned to fade the ball and in his own words 'the ball came down as light as a feather'.

I read that in Life magazine many, many, moons ago.

And there are many pros and good amateurs that hit draws that "come down light as a feather".  They are doing it with a push draw which means the face is aimed right of the target at impact, one of the reasons why they can hit it so high.  Pull draws and pull cuts will go lower.

[14ledo81]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Is that a righty's fade or a lefty's draw? Trick question: you don't know, and you could produce those characteristics from either side of the ball.

I like the sound of that.  I don't hit a slice, I hit a lefty's draw.

[Stevep21]

When I want to hit a draw I put my left foot a bit forward and I try and swing faster with my arms, not sure if this is the right way to do it but it works for me, another way I do it is to concentrate on where I want the clubhead at the top of my backswing and I concentrate on getting it aiming right of the target, I don't like doing it that way though since I am not nearly as accurate and don't know where its gonna start, I just have that swing thought when I am behind a tree or something and I must draw it and am not too concerned about where it finishes aslong as it gets around the tree or whatever. And vice versa when I want to hit a fade I open my stance slightly and feel like I swing with my body faster than my arms, it's probably not a good way to shape the ball altering your rhythm so much but it works for me and they are just swing thoughts, so something for you to try if you still can't shape it :)

[Jakester23]

I can hit a fade pretty well my natural shot shape is a 5-10 yard fade maybe a bit more with long irons and if I want to I can make that fade another 5-10. I changed my whole swing this year since I decided to get back into golf and since I did that I haven't been able to know exactly where my swing plane is.  I was just told a few weeks ago by my buddy that my plane is to steep and that was why I was struggling with my long irons 6/5/4 since he told me that they have been much straighter. I want a draw cause there are a few holes where I play that it would be the safer shot I play the back tees and 3 of the 4 par 3's are a 6 iron or more for me and 2 of those 3 it would be easier and safer to hit the draw. Some of the holes lend themselves to hitting a fade which like I said is my shot shape naturally. I appreciate all the tips haven't had a chance to get to the range and work on anything yet and its not like I'm going to start hitting the draw all the time its just an option I'd like to have in my bag.

[camper6]

  Zeph said:

Originally Posted by Zeph

You have to differentiate between a pull-draw and a push-draw. That draws don't have enough backspin and won't hold greens is just wrong. A pull-fade will not hold a green as well as a push-draw.

Nobody is talking about playing for duck-hooks. A push-draw is high and lands as soft you can get it.

Can you tell me why a draw runs farther than a fade when it lands on a hard fairway?