How to hit more greens in regulation & better course management

[hero12]

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I feel like you hit your irons really far for an 11; 185 is a pretty big 7 iron.  My assumption is that you could improve your accuracy from 185+ by taking an extra club and swinging easier.

[GolfBear]

I'm going to approach this from a bit of a different angle.    There are a lot of things that need to happen prior to the swing before you can start hitting more greens in regulation.  Here's just a smattering of some of the stuff I consider before I even choose my club.   All this happens when I stand behind the ball.   Once I make my club selection and step up to the ball it's all about making the swing.   No more thoughts

1.  What's my lie?  Fairway, light rough, heavy rough, in a divot etc.  Light rough = potential flyer; heavy rough = just get it back on play.  Is the ball above or below my feet?   Is it an uphill or downhill lie?

2.  What's the distance to the center of the green?

3.  Distance to the actual flag?

4.  Where is the flag on the green?

5.  What hazards are protecting the green?   Where are the bunkers?   Is there water?

6.  Where's the wind and what's it doing.  Will it help or will it knock the shot down?

7.  Where is the least penalizing place to miss?   If the flag is tucked left and there's water left I should never ever miss left of the flag.   If I do it's because I aimed right and pulled the ball.

8.  Finally, once I make the decision on the iron, commit fully to the shot.   NO DOUBTS.  Doubts in your brain make your body do exactly what you don't want to do!

There's a couple of books I read several years ago; Golf and the Art of War and Combat Golf.   They talk about the fact that if you look at a golf hole from the green back to the tee you can see how the architect set up the defenses for each particular hole.    When you stop charging into the teeth of the defense you'll be amazed at what it does for your score!

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by hero12

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I feel like you hit your irons really far for an 11; 185 is a pretty big 7 iron.  My assumption is that you could improve your accuracy from 185+ by taking an extra club and swinging easier.

185 is when I really crank it up, I actually average 175yds on 7i with nice easy swing.

I'm going to try your advice and see if I can do better that way.

Originally Posted by GolfBear

I'm going to approach this from a bit of a different angle.    There are a lot of things that need to happen prior to the swing before you can start hitting more greens in regulation.  Here's just a smattering of some of the stuff I consider before I even choose my club.   All this happens when I stand behind the ball.   Once I make my club selection and step up to the ball it's all about making the swing.   No more thoughts

1.  What's my lie?  Fairway, light rough, heavy rough, in a divot etc.  Light rough = potential flyer; heavy rough = just get it back on play.  Is the ball above or below my feet?   Is it an uphill or downhill lie?

2.  What's the distance to the center of the green?

3.  Distance to the actual flag?

4.  Where is the flag on the green?

5.  What hazards are protecting the green?   Where are the bunkers?   Is there water?

6.  Where's the wind and what's it doing.  Will it help or will it knock the shot down?

7.  Where is the least penalizing place to miss?   If the flag is tucked left and there's water left I should never ever miss left of the flag.   If I do it's because I aimed right and pulled the ball.

8.  Finally, once I make the decision on the iron, commit fully to the shot.   NO DOUBTS.  Doubts in your brain make your body do exactly what you don't want to do!

There's a couple of books I read several years ago; Golf and the Art of War and Combat Golf.   They talk about the fact that if you look at a golf hole from the green back to the tee you can see how the architect set up the defenses for each particular hole.    When you stop charging into the teeth of the defense you'll be amazed at what it does for your score!

nice advice there. Doubt and fear is definitely what make my swing bad I felt that and re-confirmed.

I will re-read your advice again when I get back home.

[GolfBear]

It really looks like a lot more "checks" than it really is.   Then again, I've been doing it for 34 years.   I find that when I play my worst I'm playing what I refer to is "brainless" golf.   I just walk up to the ball, pick a distance/club and swing.   When I play my best I'm actually working to minimize my mistakes.

One thing I did leave off though is to make sure you're accurate and honest with your distances.  I'm not doubting your distances but it won't help your score if you say you hit your 7i 185 yards when in fact you average 175.  We all have those shots that we pure that fly forever but what you've got to find is your average.   If you're unsure, borrow a rangefinder and go to the range.    Don't trust their yardages, measure your own.   Hit 6-10 shots with each club and make sure you're positive about your distances.   That alone will be GREAT for your confidence.

Try Annika's "Thinking Box" approach! :)

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by GolfBear

It really looks like a lot more "checks" than it really is.   Then again, I've been doing it for 34 years.   I find that when I play my worst I'm playing what I refer to is "brainless" golf.   I just walk up to the ball, pick a distance/club and swing.   When I play my best I'm actually working to minimize my mistakes.

One thing I did leave off though is to make sure you're accurate and honest with your distances.  I'm not doubting your distances but it won't help your score if you say you hit your 7i 185 yards when in fact you average 175.  We all have those shots that we pure that fly forever but what you've got to find is your average.   If you're unsure, borrow a rangefinder and go to the range.    Don't trust their yardages, measure your own.   Hit 6-10 shots with each club and make sure you're positive about your distances.   That alone will be GREAT for your confidence.

Try Annika's "Thinking Box" approach! :)

Point 1-5 I actually started to do this a few months ago, so I'm comfortable.

Point 6 = The wind is my BIGGEST natural hazard, I'm terrible whenever there is wind, as I haven't learned how to hit those low ball flyers.

Point 7 and 8 = I'm sure that I start to see at the cart's GPS (when there is one) to see where the flag and hazards actually are.

But even then I get scared and ended up hitting the shot that I'm scared of. Another thing that makes me nervous is when I play

with strangers. I never felt nervous when I was a bad golfer, but nowadays I feel it.

I do average my 7i 175yds . I Hit my 6i 185yds . I'm pretty sure that's what I have typed in , but if I typed otherwise, it's a typo, so I'm sorry.

Yes, I'm very comfortable and confident with my iron ranges. I have always double checked that when I get my first club set with PX6.0

and again when I got my C-tapers. I do hit my C-tapers a little further than my PX6.0 by about 6 yards average.  I tested these usually at the Pro-shop's Simulator which

is about 5-10 yds short with irons and 20 yds short with driver, according to all the teachers.

But yes, I agree and appreciate your advices, thanks so much for your time and I hope you won't stop giving me more advices.

PS: You played for 34 years... I was thinking recently that soon or later I'll have a good swing, good confidence and decent knowledge of the game.

When that time comes, (came for you) , what kept you golfing?  For me it's always been that process to improve and enjoying the rewards.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

185 is when I really crank it up, I actually average 175yds on 7i with nice easy swing.

It would be helpful to see a video of you hitting your average 7i.

[GolfBear]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Point 6 = The wind is my BIGGEST natural hazard, I'm terrible whenever there is wind, as I haven't learned how to hit those low ball flyers.

Wind is counter intuitive.  When hitting into it you feel like you should swing really hard to power the ball through the headwind.  In fact, that makes it worse because swinging hard usually results in more spin.  More spin into a headwind makes the ball balloon and thus finish shorter.   To play the wind effectively you have to take one more club and swing easy.   If you can, try not to make a full finish.   That should help you keep the ball down.   Keep in mind, if the wind is behind you it'll push the ball but it is going to knock the ball down some and reduce spin.   Side wind makes any natural curve you have that much worse if it's coming from the same direction.

Point 7 and 8 = I'm sure that I start to see at the cart's GPS (when there is one) to see where the flag and hazards actually are.

But even then I get scared and ended up hitting the shot that I'm scared of.

Once you cross that shot line there's not more thinking about the shot you don't want to hit.   All your pre-shot work is done.   Focus intently on where you want the shot to land.   I mean REALLY intently.   Don't think about your swing, think about "I want the ball to land on the little patch of dark green grass 175 yards away then pull the trigger.

I do average my 7i 175yds . I Hit my 6i 185yds . I'm pretty sure that's what I have typed in , but if I typed otherwise, it's a typo, so I'm sorry.

Yes, I'm very comfortable and confident with my iron ranges. I have always double checked that when I get my first club set with PX6.0

and again when I got my C-tapers. I do hit my C-tapers a little further than my PX6.0 by about 6 yards average.  I tested these usually at the Pro-shop's Simulator which

is about 5-10 yds short with irons and 20 yds short with driver, according to all the teachers.

But yes, I agree and appreciate your advices, thanks so much for your time and I hope you won't stop giving me more advices.

That's fine then.   I alway ask because there are a LOT of players out there who only think they know how far they hit their irons.

PS: You played for 34 years... I was thinking recently that soon or later I'll have a good swing, good confidence and decent knowledge of the game.

When that time comes, (came for you) , what kept you golfing?  For me it's always been that process to improve and enjoying the rewards.

Oddly enough, I think you'll find that scoring becomes less of an issue as you play more.   It's basically a bell curve.   When I was playing competitively in high school and shortly thereafter it was all about score.   Eventually I think you get down to your own personal minimum.   That's the top of the curve for me and that was around a 2 handicap.   That was playing at least 36 holes or more a week and practicing 3-4 days.    I held at around a 2 for several years but that changed when I got married and we started a family.  That's the downside of the curve.   I slid down to around 14 and hovered there for a few years because my life didn't leave much time for golf.   Now my kids have gotten a bit older and my handicap is dropping again.   I just enjoy playing the game.   Some days you hit it great, others you don't.  Some days you hit it great and can't score, others you hack around and post a score you can't believe.  That's just golf, the key is to enjoy the game.   Don't chase score, play for the love of the game and score often follows.

[Sai-Jin]

@Chas: I do have the video taken by a golf pro on my V1 as well as the driver swing that netted me 318yds and 327yds that made me the longest drive contest winner last Monday.

But I don't play for distance anymore. I'm over that. I need accuracy more than anything and consistency.

@Golfbear: Wind play: I will try that. I find wind even harder when it pushes me back from my stance or it's blowing into my face and ears.

Green shot, Ok, I'll do my best to really have that intent to make the shot. Seems hard though since I have a lot of doubt, even by just thinking about it right now.

I understand now. I think that will come to me naturally eventually once I become better and wiser.

But is it ok to crave for score right now? I think if I don't have that I won't improve.

[Yukari]

Hmmm.  I thought for the right-handed golfer, it was the opposite.  That is, if the shaft is too flexible, you will fade/slice; and if the shaft is too stiff, you will draw/hook.

Originally Posted by awmgolfer

Just to address what does your shaft flex have to do with it? If you have a flex to soft you will have a tendency to always go left and to stiff you will go right which is a big part of accuracy. Taking one more club and an easier swing really helps, something I am actually working on right now with the golf team.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Quote:

Originally Posted by hero12

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I feel like you hit your irons really far for an 11; 185 is a pretty big 7 iron.  My assumption is that you could improve your accuracy from 185+ by taking an extra club and swinging easier.

185 is when I really crank it up, I actually average 175yds on 7i with nice easy swing.

I'm going to try your advice and see if I can do better that way.

Not sure your nice easy swing is as nice and easy as you think. My nice and easy 7-iron is about 175 too. When I "really crank it up" it's a couple clubs longer than 185 - just sayin'.

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Not sure your nice easy swing is as nice and easy as you think. My nice and easy 7-iron is about 175 too. When I "really crank it up" it's a couple clubs longer than 185 - just sayin'.

Yes, just that when I look at the video everything looks soooo smooth and easy and effortless. I was super surprised that I couldn't believe it.

But anyways, I need to get better at approach shots.  Golfbear gave me a bunch of great advices... is there a way for me to tag this thread to the top in my profile?

I want to re-read you guys' replies and let it sink.

[dsc123]

If you're driving the ball 320 yards, how often are you hitting 175+ into the greens?

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by dsc123

If you're driving the ball 320 yards, how often are you hitting 175+ into the greens?

50% or less. . . I mentioned this actually already and it's not good... and 195 yds would be1 out of 5 times.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

50% or less. . . I mentioned this actually already and it's not good... and 195 yds would be1 out of 5 times.

I mean how many times do you find yourself looking at a 175 yard shot?  175 in after a 320 yard drive is 495 yards.

Even a long par 4, say 450, and a 300 yard drive, only leaves you 150 out.

My point is that I have to assume that you're not facing the shot very often, and that at best you have 1 shot per round to gain by improving your GIR from that distance.

[GolfBear]

Sai-Jin,

It's always ok to use score as a motivator.   After all, that's the ultimate object of the game, to shoot a lower score.   Just don't let the score become so important that it ruins your enjoyment of the game.

I keep thinking of additional questions to ask you.   Do you plot your misses?   For example, this isn't my card but it's how my scorecard (before I started using Golflogix) used to look:

I also mark what side I miss the fairways or the greens on.   This way I know that if I miss on the left I'm far more likely to card a bogey or higher.    If I miss on the right I've still got a shot at making par or at worst, a bogey.    Basically then I know that no matter what I do, I can't miss left.   I think there are even software packages that will help you with the %'s.

It'll help you key in on where your misses tend to be!  :)

[Sai-Jin]

@Golfbear: I just got back from my friend's golf school as he checked my fundamentals and why I'm inconsistent.

Apparently my back swing with my irons are too long, my 7i came to parallel to the ground and sometimes even more, when I unconsciously let go of the club on my left hand when I try to be passive. He said that this back overswing will cause me to cast a tiny bit, thus releasing too early by 2 inches behind the ball and results in me opening the club on and after impact and not be able to release naturally post impact.

So he told me to learn to shorten the back swing (which will make me lose distance for the time being) then learn how to have a better tempo and timing to regain my distance.

I tried shortening the backswing which is not easy for me, but when I start to do so, it seems that I kept hitting the same target in front of me.

Hmmm I haven't written a score card like that, but the one biggest miss I have is either a push or a fade and hit my balls right. I rarely miss left if I can remember.

But speaking of software, I have the motorola ACTV and I think that thing keeps track of everything, so I'll look into that.

@DSC: Correct, you are smart, I rarely have to face those shots. They are usually when I have to face the par 3s that are 170 - 210 yds

or on a par 5 when I hit my driver too long, ended up in the deep rough and had to salvage my shot using a sandwedge to make it play again.

But I still need to be more accurate with a typical 7i .

My drive averages 280-290 . I try to swing a little tiny bit faster to get above 300yds on a long par 5, in which my home course has 2 of them and both are at around 600yds each.  Honestly though, I wish my home course is a smarter one so I can take a 3 wood instead of drivers all the time.

[Leftygolfer]

I don't think missing greens is a course management thing.  It is a golf is really hard thing.  Are you just missing greens by a little and having good shots of getting up and in.  At your level, 6-7 GIRs a round is good.  9 is great.  I'm not sure what your expectations are.  But when I was playing off a good 10, I'd make my GIRs on the 5s and short 4s/3s.  scratch players only average around 9.5 GIRS a round

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

I don't think missing greens is a course management thing.  It is a golf is really hard thing.  Are you just missing greens by a little and having good shots of getting up and in.  At your level, 6-7 GIRs a round is good.  9 is great.  I'm not sure what your expectations are.  But when I was playing off a good 10, I'd make my GIRs on the 5s and short 4s/3s.  scratch players only average around 9.5 GIRS a round

Yes, I'm missing it left or right usually by around 20 feet or so. Distance itself is pretty much accurate a lot of times (unless I duff a shot).

I was hoping to hit at least half which is 9 GIR, but since I'm rather ignorant, perhaps that's too much of expectation...

I felt this way because the course I usually play at doesn't seem to be too difficult like those PGA courses.

But I'll lower my expectations.

Btw, I still don't understand how a shorter back swing that feels like 1/2 a swing would be more powerful than what I'm used to do which is overswinging.

I understand the accuracy issues I"m having now, but that shorter back swing feels really weak and I'm afraid that I'll lose 10-20 yards with my irons.