Ball Position and Swing Arc for Irons

[mgortel]

New golfer here...and new to the forum. I am a bit confused on something I have been reading and hearing about with respect to ball position and swing arc with respect to IRONS:

Here is what I have heard/read:

1)You always want to hit DOWN on the ball with your irons.

2)The position of the ball should be somewhere between the midpoint of your stance to just behind your left heel. The higher the loft on the club the farther back it should be….so for example for a PW you would want the ball in the middle of your stance….and for a 5 iron maybe midway or ¾ of the way between the middle of your stance and your left heel.

3)The bottom of your swing arc should always be at the midpoint of your stance.

My confusion is this:

If the bottom of your swing arc should be at the midpoint of your stance…..and the ball is at the midpoint (for PW) or further forward for other irons…..it seems to me that the club will be on the upswing (i.e. not hitting down) when it contacts the ball under these conditions.

Can someone tell me what I am missing here please.

Thanks, Mike

[rustyredcab]

Welcome to the game and TheSandtrap.com.

Swing arc should match ball -- your are right that you want to hit the ball before releasing the club. For me, a good swing has the bottom of the arc at the front of the ball or just in front of that. So where is the ball position?

Many use this concept for ball position for irons:

Ball is in the same position relative to the front foot for all irons. Feet get wider as clubs get longer. So, ball is more forward in the stance for long irons compared to the middle of your stance but does not change compared to your front foot.

When raised on a tee, the ball is a bit more forward relative to the lead foot. But for all irons, the ball is in the same place relative to that lead foot.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by mgortel

If the bottom of your swing arc should be at the midpoint of your stance…..and the ball is at the midpoint (for PW) or further forward for other irons…..it seems to me that the club will be on the upswing (i.e. not hitting down) when it contacts the ball under these conditions.

I think the bottom of your swing is closer to your left armpit (if your a righty).  Its the center of your weight, which should be forward at impact, not the center of your stance.

[iacas]

The bottom of your swing arc should not be in the middle of your stance. That's why you're confused.

[mgortel]

Quote:

I think the bottom of your swing is closer to your left armpit (if your a righty).  Its the center of your weight, which should be forward at impact, not the center of your stance.

Quote:

The bottom of your swing arc should not be in the middle of your stance. That's why you're confused.

Ahhhhh Haaaaa !!!!!! OK....now that makes sense. Not sure where I got the "bottom of swing should be in center of stance"....but thank you for straightening that out. Now it makes sense.

Mike

[bjwestner]

Iacas - I read somewhere that the bottom of the swing arc for irons should be about 4 inches in front of the ball, can you confirm or deny this?  If it's not then what should it be?  Thanks!

[nevrino]

Originally Posted by bjwestner

Iacas - I read somewhere that the bottom of the swing arc for irons should be about 4 inches in front of the ball, can you confirm or deny this?  If it's not then what should it be?  Thanks!

I would guess it will be like 3-5 inches infront of the golf ball. I'm thinking that when the club has reached half of the divot it will start to raise again. Therefor half the divots size infront of the golf ball which is like 3-5 inches, but this is just plain guessing :p.

[iacas]

Four inches is pretty good. Divots are about eight inches long. The better players have really shallow divots, too.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by mgortel

New golfer here...and new to the forum. I am a bit confused on something I have been reading and hearing about with respect to ball position and swing arc with respect to IRONS:

Here is what I have heard/read:

1)You always want to hit DOWN on the ball with your irons.

2)The position of the ball should be somewhere between the midpoint of your stance to just behind your left heel. The higher the loft on the club the farther back it should be….so for example for a PW you would want the ball in the middle of your stance….and for a 5 iron maybe midway or ¾ of the way between the middle of your stance and your left heel.

3)The bottom of your swing arc should always be at the midpoint of your stance.

My confusion is this:

If the bottom of your swing arc should be at the midpoint of your stance…..and the ball is at the midpoint (for PW) or further forward for other irons…..it seems to me that the club will be on the upswing (i.e. not hitting down) when it contacts the ball under these conditions.

Can someone tell me what I am missing here please.

Thanks, Mike

Some experts say you should NOT hit down on the ball.  ( Manuel de la Torre (born 6 October 1921) is recognized as being one of golf 's top teachers. His career includes playing competitively on tour, head golf professional at Milwaukee Country Club one of America's most esteemed golf clubs, and a career of teaching both tour professional and amateur golfers. Among the tour professionals he has taught are Masters champion, Tommy Aaron and U.S. Women's Open champion, Carol Mann . He was the first member of the PGA to be awarded their Teacher of the Year Award in 1986. He is one of only several golf instructors to be inducted into both the World Golf Teachers Hall of Fame ^{[ 2 ]} as well as the PGA Hall of Fame. ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_de_la_Torre_(golfer ))}

^{The swing path i.e bottom will change with the length of the club, and your swing style.  My swing bottom at plus 3" club length for wedges  is way back by the rear foot. I think the main thing that is trying to be expressed is that certain contact position results in powerful and accurate results. An observer of this tries to describe it and we get "hit down"  because it looks like they are hitting down, etc. A lot of descriptions fail to express what is really going on.  The opposite of hitting down would be hitting up and an observer seeing the result of what they see as hitting up may be inclined to say the result is not as good.  On the other hand we are told to hit up with a driver.  I will say this. I do NOT try to hit down nor control my swing bottom but rather attempt  to get the club head to drag behind the hands. This results in a powerful and accurate shot. It probably also gives the impression of hitting down due to the angle of the club. And produces an accurate strike which magically corresponds to a swing bottom ahead of the ball.  Like many things in golf attempting to get a good shot results in "stuff" byproducts. Trying to duplicate the "stuff" does not necessarily produce a good shot}

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

Some experts say you should NOT hit down on the ball.

Some experts think the ball starts in the direction of the path and finishes where the face is pointing.

So....

Less copy/paste, more original thought and exploration of truths, please.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by iacas

Some experts think the ball starts in the direction of the path and finishes where the face is pointing.

So....

Less copy/paste, more original thought and exploration of truths, please.

"experts" Cite your sources with a cut and paste reference or I will be forced to conclude that you just made it all up.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

"experts"  Cite your sources with a cut and paste reference or I will be forced to conclude that you just made it all up.

We've cited sources many times for that particular thing and they're wrong. Nick Faldo still says it. Brandel Chamblee said it.

So cool the attitude. Just because an "expert" says something doesn't mean it's true, and just because something's on the Internet doesn't make it true either.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by iacas

We've cited sources many times for that particular thing and they're wrong. Nick Faldo still says it. Brandel Chamblee said it.

So cool the attitude. Just because an "expert" says something doesn't mean it's true, and just because something's on the Internet doesn't make it true either.

So now you are presuming to speak for others huh? "we've"

I think this is correct as it applies to your post "just because something's on the Internet doesn't make it true" You are correct,  your posts are very flawed.

[nevrino]

I don't even know what you're argueing about. Hit the ball first and let the club travel down on the ball and into the ground = good power and spin, logical.

Hit the ground first and take the ball later= ground takes up a lot of force, less spin & bad contact.

[luu5]

I guess Manuel de la Torre is not trying to hit down, but I bet he is not trying to hit up either. In the end his club goes down and hit's the ball on downward path. He can have his bottom near back foot, but I guess his stance is also very open, or he is drawing/hooking balls like mad.

[colin007]

So now you are presuming to speak for others huh? "we've"  I think this is correct as it applies to your post "just because something's on the Internet doesn't make it true" You are correct,  your posts are very flawed.

How is citing a source "presuming"? I don't know why, but this guy and OCEANSWHATEVER make me think of Patrick...

[saevel25]

Sources doesn't mean Professional players

Erik's sources is indisputable, scientifically proven fact.

Do an experiment. Take your putter, make sure the clubface is pointing right. Now take your normal swing, and notice the club path. Were does the ball start and were does the ball finish?

By the past 30 years of golf, Nick Faldo, Jack Nicholaus, ect.. The ball should start were your club was traveling, straight. But it doesn't does it, the ball starts were your clubface is pointed. There is nothing different in the physics of a putting stroke than a full swing that would change this fact. I will say the swing path does effect the path on a small scale in the full swing, but only as much as 15%. The reason why Nick and Jack were wrong, because they hit thousand upon thousand of golf balls, and they knew how the ball will fly. Jack may have been aiming his clubface to the target at address, but at impact it was not pointed at the target.

Believe me, i have done experimented with this. I had a shot tuesday, i was behind a tree, to advance the ball down this par 5 i had to start it near parallel to the fairway and hook it back to the fairway. What i did was put the ball back in my stance so, i had to punch it, so i aimed my body right of my starting line, and i aimed my clubface were i wanted the ball to start. The ball started off near parallel to the fairway, it hooked back to the fairway. This was because the ball STARTS were you AIM it with the CLUBFACE. My swing path was to the right because the ball was back in my stance and because i aimed more right. This caused hook spin. If i was to believe Jack, my ball should have started way right and ended up in the rough right of the fairway it didn't i ended up in the middle of the fairway.

[bobsuruncle]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Welcome to the game and TheSandtrap.com.

Swing arc should match ball -- your are right that you want to hit the ball before releasing the club. For me, a good swing has the bottom of the arc at the front of the ball or just in front of that. So where is the ball position?

Many use this concept for ball position for irons:

Ball is in the same position relative to the front foot for all irons. Feet get wider as clubs get longer. So, ball is more forward in the stance for long irons compared to the middle of your stance but does not change compared to your front foot.

When raised on a tee, the ball is a bit more forward relative to the lead foot. But for all irons, the ball is in the same place relative to that lead foot.

Hi, I'm very keen to know if this is correct - i.e. that the ball position is the same relative to the lead foot ... I've read and been told so many different opinions about this specific issue.  Thank you.