2012 NFL Season

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes, that was my point... and I'm not sure even Steve Young really fits that mold. He wasn't as "scrambly" as RGIII.

Ok, then sub Steve Young with Randall Cunningham.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

That's not a joke, all the sports stations here are reporting a potential trade.  If the Jets want to be a circus, Vick is their guy.

Aren't they already hitting those marks?

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Aren't they already hitting those marks?

Yes they are.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes, that was my point... and I'm not sure even Steve Young really fits that mold. He wasn't as "scrambly" as RGIII.

Not to beat a dead horse

People seem to forget what a good runner Steve Young was because he was sucn a great passer. But only Randall C and Vick have more rushing yards than Young's 4,239. And Young still holds the record for most rushing TD's of any QB (43).  I think this makes him pretty darn scrambly or am I missing something?

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by RonTheSavage

Not to beat a dead horse

People seem to forget what a good runner Steve Young was because he was sucn a great passer. But only Randall C and Vick have more rushing yards than Young's 4,239. And Young still holds the record for most rushing TD's of any QB (43).  I think this makes him pretty darn scrambly or am I missing something?

I don't recall Young running option plays. He was scrambler, and not a RB who can also throw. One of the points being made here is that contrary to some of the labels of 'greatest', 'elite', and 'game-changing' that are being applied to some of today's running QBs, I bet the house that they won't retire with those labels as long as they are fed high-school level plays like options, bootlegs, and wildcats. Those kiddy plays will only keep today's smart fast defences off balance for so long.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I don't recall Young running option plays. He was scrambler, and not a RB who can also throw. One of the points being made here is that contrary to some of the labels of 'greatest', 'elite', and 'game-changing' that are being applied to some of today's running QBs, I bet the house that they won't retire with those labels as long as they are fed high-school level plays like options, bootlegs, and wildcats. Those kiddy plays will only keep today's smart fast defences off balance for so long.

I agree with everything you've said. The only point I've tried to make is that for RG3 "seems" to be on the way to being the next successful QB who can run. More of the Steve Young and to a much lessor extent Donovan Mcnabb type as opposed to the others who've come and gone.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

(a.) I see so many illegal pick plays ran today - that aren't called - which give the outside or inside crossing route a wide open slant... Many of these routes have been mastered over the last several years.  And teams like the Patriots, Steelers, etc run them exceptionally well.  Because they are illegal - teams won't run them every down... But I see it a lot on 3rd down when they are in 3rd and medium type of yardage scenarios.  It's like Brady knows they need a first down so run the play and while it is 'bending' the rules.... It is rarely ever called against the offense.

Pats have been called for OPI three times this year for a pick on this play, so the refs are looking and they aren't "bending" the rules.  I have seen other teams get away with it too.  The Pats lost to Arizona on a clear pick in the end zone on the same bubble screen pass.  It just has to be called.

The other reason guys like Brady and P. Manning are so consistently good is they can read defenses like an offensive coordinator.  That is an exceptionally rare skill.  They don't have the legs of RGIII or Big Ben who create plays by buying time, but they see what the other team is up to at the line of scrimmage.  Their offenses also evolve and change to changing defenses.  The Pats offense this year is not at all like 2007.

[jamo]

Their offenses also evolve and change to changing defenses.  The Pats offense this year is not at all like 2007.

...Which was even less like their offense from 2001.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Pats have been called for OPI three times this year for a pick on this play, so the refs are looking and they aren't "bending" the rules.  I have seen other teams get away with it too.  The Pats lost to Arizona on a clear pick in the end zone on the same bubble screen pass.  It just has to be called.

The other reason guys like Brady and P. Manning are so consistently good is they can read defenses like an offensive coordinator.  That is an exceptionally rare skill.  They don't have the legs of RGIII or Big Ben who create plays by buying time, but they see what the other team is up to at the line of scrimmage.  Their offenses also evolve and change to changing defenses.  The Pats offense this year is not at all like 2007.

Yeah, I'm not trying to call the Patriots or Steelers out as the only teams doing the pick play.  Because a ton of the NFL does it.  But they do it more successfully than others.  Hines Ward was a great WR - and I can tell you a ton of the crossing routes he made against the Browns - he would be open due to pick plays.

And you are right... The QB's who can read a defense are going to have more success than those that can't.  But again, many of the routes that are being ran in the NFL today - are borderline legal.  And the bubble screens are just a replacement run off tackle.

[RPMPIRE]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

The other reason guys like Brady and P. Manning are so consistently good is they can read defenses like an offensive coordinator.

It also helps to have a very good offensive line. I would attribute a lot of Brady's success as to not only being good at reading defenses, but his offensive line gives him time to drink a beer before he throws.

[smellysell]

Terrible matchup tonight, though wouldn't mind watching the Raiders pulling off an upset.  Don't see it happening though unfortunately.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Ok, then sub Steve Young with Randall Cunningham.

OK.

Remind me, how many Super Bowls did Randall Cunningham win?

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

It also helps to have a very good offensive line. I would attribute a lot of Brady's success as to not only being good at reading defenses, but his offensive line gives him time to drink a beer before he throws.

Except when he plays my Giants.

[JasonK88S]

Originally Posted by RonTheSavage

I totally see what you're saying and you're making valid points. But c'mon it's hardly fair to compare RG to elite Superbowl Winning QBs. There was a time when people said Peyton couldnt win the big game. Eli's own teamates called him Elli for the same reason. The Giants front 4 has stopped Brady on the biggest of stages more than once right? Just ask any D coordinator who's harder to gameplan for and they will tell you the guy whos "able" to run. I think the league is changing and we will see more "athlete" type QB's. Shoot the Rams were only able to move the ball when Sam Bradford ran on broken plays to put his team in position to kick a FG. It's nice to have the option when the D has the right play called is all Im sayin.

Since you said the "R" word... I will touch base on that right quick. Let Sam have some protection and a little more time for the WR to finish routes and I think we have a totally new club. Bradford can throw the ball he just needs a little more time. And yes you are correct when you talk about the broken plays out of the pocket with Bradford because every team needs that. Look at Kaepernick and how well he is doing by just being able to create something out of nothing with his legs and agility. If the Rams could just buy a little more time on the O line and stop choking in the redzone with elementary penalties we would be a totally different team. I'm confident that Fisher knows what he is doing. Lets hope.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by JasonK88S

Since you said the "R" word... I will touch base on that right quick. Let Sam have some protection and a little more time for the WR to finish routes and I think we have a totally new club. Bradford can throw the ball he just needs a little more time. And yes you are correct when you talk about the broken plays out of the pocket with Bradford because every team needs that. Look at Kaepernick and how well he is doing by just being able to create something out of nothing with his legs and agility. If the Rams could just buy a little more time on the O line and stop choking in the redzone with elementary penalties we would be a totally different team. I'm confident that Fisher knows what he is doing. Lets hope.

The Rams have alot of young talent, you guys are headed in the right direction for sure. It's about time people stopped looking at the NFC West as a bad division.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by turtleback

OK.

Remind me, how many Super Bowls did Randall Cunningham win?

Not fair! That wasn't the original question!

Seriously though, Randall Cunningham fits into the successful 'scrambly' quarterback association doesn't he?  If not, then I guess there has never been a successful 'scrambly' quarterback - if we are using Super Bowls as the benchmark now??

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Not fair! That wasn't the original question!

Seriously though, Randall Cunningham fits into the successful 'scrambly' quarterback association doesn't he?  If not, then I guess there has never been a successful 'scrambly' quarterback - if we are using Super Bowls as the benchmark now??

Agreed!

I guess Dan Marino wasn't a succesful (pocket) QB? I guess he should've become more "scrambly"

And yes "scrambly" is a new word LOL

[boogielicious]

Quote:

It also helps to have a very good offensive line. I would attribute a lot of Brady's success as to not only being good at reading defenses, but his offensive line gives him time to drink a beer before he throws.

Yes.  Dante Scarnecchia should get Coach of the Year (Pats O line coach).  He can take almost any player and make a great O line with it.