GPS inaccuracy fallacy

[Grumpter]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

When you are 150 yards away, you can move the little dot around on your screen to where YOU THINK the flag is, but you certainly don't know that for sure ... especially on holes where the green surface is hidden behind a mound or bunker.  Just like k-troop also said ... you are just guessing at that point.  Whereas, with the laser you are phsyically seeing what you are getting a measurement to so there is no question.

EDIT:  For most of us, 2 or 3 yards difference is no big deal cuz we ain't that precise anyway, but as you get better, you are going to want to know exactly how far things are.  Also, when I watch the "On The Range" show on golf channel I see caddies with lasers all the time, but haven't yet noticed one with a GPS.

The last course I played that didn't have at least different colored flags for Front, Middle, Back  had greens so small it really didn't need them. Aim for the middle of the green was good enough. Almost all courses I have played in the last few years had 3+ quadrants for greens, many have 6 different pin placements. No you don't know exactly where the pin is but it is close enough for me.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Paradox

the blind shot thing isn't exactly a detraction for a laser.  All you have to do is go to the point where the shot wouldn't be blind...shoot your target..turn around..shoot the ground where your ball is.  Add them together...you got your distance.  If you're blind all the way to the green(an uphill hole on a shelf) then shoot the top of the hill at the front of the green.  Check flag color and get a decent yardage.  On most greens though...I can shoot the front..the flag, and the back in the area I wanna land the ball in a span of 10 seconds.  No moving cursors or playing with screens or anything else..just three button pushes.

As for just getting the number to the pin...it doesn't mean thats the number you swing for..it just gives you accurate info to base what shot you want to play off of.  There are many times when I'll shoot the flag and know that I'm going to be landing the ball well short of it..but it lets me know the club and the swing I need to try and accomplish that.  Doesn't mean I do it because I'm no pro..but it gives me confidence.

For the first part, I wouldn't consider walking down to the target and back to take measurements to be anywhere near reasonable. If you're talking about doing this to make up a yardage book, that's different, and not at all what I'm talking about here.

For the second part, unless you know with high precision where the pin is in relation to your target, there's very little objective benefit to having +/- 1 foot versus +/- 10 foot errors on your measurement. I guess if your target is just "one club short of the flag," then that's fine, but that's really not a situation where you're benefitting from the exact yardage.

Unless it just makes you feel better about it. There's a lot of value to that in this game!

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by zeg

For the first part, I wouldn't consider walking down to the target and back to take measurements to be anywhere near reasonable. If you're talking about doing this to make up a yardage book, that's different, and not at all what I'm talking about here.

For the second part, unless you know with high precision where the pin is in relation to your target, there's very little objective benefit to having +/- 1 foot versus +/- 10 foot errors on your measurement. I guess if your target is just "one club short of the flag," then that's fine, but that's really not a situation where you're benefitting from the exact yardage.

Unless it just makes you feel better about it. There's a lot of value to that in this game!

Lets say I'm down in a dip where I can't see the green/target I am trying to hit to....I walk to the top of the dip to get a line of sight..shoot that distance..then shoot back to my ball from that same spot.  It doesn't involve a lot of walking.  Say I'm behind a tree and can't see the green...go in front of the tree, shoot the green, turn around and move to the side of the tree and shoot my ball..got my distance.  Takes about 20-30 seconds at most...

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Paradox

Lets say I'm down in a dip where I can't see the green/target I am trying to hit to....I walk to the top of the dip to get a line of sight..shoot that distance..then shoot back to my ball from that same spot.  It doesn't involve a lot of walking.  Say I'm behind a tree and can't see the green...go in front of the tree, shoot the green, turn around and move to the side of the tree and shoot my ball..got my distance.  Takes about 20-30 seconds at most...

That's reasonable ... because even if I don't have GPS or laser, I'm still walking to the top of that hill to get a line.  Having the laser wouldn't cost any extra time, and having a GPS would only save time if I wanted to be lazy and guess where to aim.  Probably not a good idea.

[sean_miller]

My BS detector is going crazy. It doesn't matter how accurate most players can see hidden targets beyond forced carries and over hill and dale. The average player is just as likely to sheer one at a 45 degree angle right into those trees anyway. Why not just play to an area where you can see the ball land, then go find it and hit it again . . . instead of irritating the group waiting on the tee.

[mad max]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

My BS detector is going crazy. It doesn't matter how accurate most players can see hidden targets beyond forced carries and over hill and dale. The average player is just as likely to sheer one at a 45 degree angle right into those trees anyway. Why not just play to an area where you can see the ball land, then go find it and hit it again . . . instead of irritating the group waiting on the tee.

Yeah, but how far away is that area that you can see the ball land.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

My BS detector is going crazy. It doesn't matter how accurate most players can see hidden targets beyond forced carries and over hill and dale. The average player is just as likely to sheer one at a 45 degree angle right into those trees anyway. Why not just play to an area where you can see the ball land, then go find it and hit it again . . . instead of irritating the group waiting on the tee.

No BS, but you're right ... for me, if there are people waiting on the tee, all bets are off.  I just make an educated guess, hit the damn thing, and move on.  And I'm not talking about a really far walk or big carry or anything.  While I'm thinking of this scenario, I am picturing a hole I played a few weeks ago where I sliced it into the wrong fairway and had a 15 ft high mound directly in front of me and in my line towards the green.  I just ran up to the top, picked what I thought was the right line, walked backwards back to my ball, hit a perfect shot ... then get up there to find out I was 20 yards off with my aim.  So, I guess that goes even further towards your point, I wouldn't have done any worse had I just guessed and hit it.

[wadesworld]

Lasers are great.  You do have to be careful though to be sure you're targeting the right thing.  I've gone long before when my buddy thought he was lasering the flag, but it was actually reading something behind the flag.  Doesn't happen often though.

As others have said, I'm not accurate enough that pinpoint precision is required.  I like the fact that a GPS gives me front, center and back of green, 100-yard, 125 and 150 yard layups, bunker carries, etc all in one "reading."

But, what I like even more about the GPS apps (Golfshot in my case) is that they track my round and statistics.  Lasers don't do that.  Sure, you can do it manually on the scorecard or enter it into your phone in scorekeeping app, but if you're going to do that, you might as well use a GPS and scorekeeping app.

So, I think the GPS apps have additional functionality that make up for a little less accuracy.  But, I have no aversion to lasers and will probably purchase one when I get good enough that I can actually target a few yards' difference.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by wadesworld

Lasers are great.  You do have to be careful though to be sure you're targeting the right thing.  I've gone long before when my buddy thought he was lasering the flag, but it was actually reading something behind the flag.  Doesn't happen often though.

As others have said, I'm not accurate enough that pinpoint precision is required.  I like the fact that a GPS gives me front, center and back of green, 100-yard, 125 and 150 yard layups, bunker carries, etc all in one "reading."

But, what I like even more about the GPS apps (Golfshot in my case) is that they track my round and statistics.  Lasers don't do that.  Sure, you can do it manually on the scorecard or enter it into your phone in scorekeeping app, but if you're going to do that, you might as well use a GPS and scorekeeping app.

So, I think the GPS apps have additional functionality that make up for a little less accuracy.  But, I have no aversion to lasers and will probably purchase one when I get good enough that I can actually target a few yards' difference.

But could you wire your GPS up to a pair of golf cart batteries and weld the next group's clubs together after they forget to replace the pin? I think not.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

My BS detector is going crazy. It doesn't matter how accurate most players can see hidden targets beyond forced carries and over hill and dale. The average player is just as likely to sheer one at a 45 degree angle right into those trees anyway. Why not just play to an area where you can see the ball land, then go find it and hit it again . . . instead of irritating the group waiting on the tee.

No BS, but you're right ... for me, if there are people waiting on the tee, all bets are off.  I just make an educated guess, hit the damn thing, and move on.  And I'm not talking about a really far walk or big carry or anything.  While I'm thinking of this scenario, I am picturing a hole I played a few weeks ago where I sliced it into the wrong fairway and had a 15 ft high mound directly in front of me and in my line towards the green.  I just ran up to the top, picked what I thought was the right line, walked backwards back to my ball, hit a perfect shot ... then get up there to find out I was 20 yards off with my aim.  So, I guess that goes even further towards your point, I wouldn't have done any worse had I just guessed and hit it.

I wasn't talking about you actually. I was referring to the 20+ cappers routinely hitting all these blind forced carries based on GPS data.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I wasn't talking about you actually. I was referring to the 20+ cappers routinely hitting all these blind forced carries based on GPS data.

I probably hit these shots about as often as anyone on here really needs to hit a 133 yard approach instead of a 136 yard approach.

But, come on, this is exactly my point. These shots don't come up very often.

The difference between a GPS and a laser is in the noise for almost everyone who doesn't already have a caddy with a precisely dimensioned yardage book. Each can do a few things that the other can't (or can't easily), but it's really, really rare that these things come up.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by zeg

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I wasn't talking about you actually. I was referring to the 20+ cappers routinely hitting all these blind forced carries based on GPS data.

I probably hit these shots about as often as anyone on here really needs to hit a 133 yard approach instead of a 136 yard approach.

But, come on, this is exactly my point. These shots don't come up very often.

The difference between a GPS and a laser is in the noise for almost everyone who doesn't already have a caddy with a precisely dimensioned yardage book. Each can do a few things that the other can't (or can't easily), but it's really, really rare that these things come up.

hmm . . . this is true. Gonna stick with pacing.

[hanalei]

I just started playing in Hawaii, looking at the GPS maps from several different golf GPS apps, they all appear to be wrong, all of pin markers, hazards, tees etc look like they have all shifted 50yards west. Did the entire island shift 50yards east?

[rbarzill]

I play with 2 guys all the time and all three of us always use Golfshot.  Every time we compare, the readings are on average 2 to 4 yards different between each phone.

The twenty yard difference mentioned before sounds like an interference problem at that particular time... Occasionally my app is 600 yards off... just wave the phone around a bit if the gps looks "off" and it tends to correct itself.

[zeke4351]

I have a Skycaddie and a laser. I also have a IPhone 5 with GolfLogix on it. I use my IPhone for all my rounds after testing it side by side with about everything made. My friend that I play with a lot has the latest and greatest laser with slope but I still find my iPhone with the GolfLogix works better for me. Could it be he is giving me wrong readings trying to beat me?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zeke4351

I have a Skycaddie and a laser. I also have a IPhone 5 with GolfLogix on it. I use my IPhone for all my rounds after testing it side by side with about everything made. My friend that I play with a lot has the latest and greatest laser with slope but I still find my iPhone with the GolfLogix works better for me. Could it be he is giving me wrong readings trying to beat me?

No. Odds are the laser is accurate and he's measuring to the pin while you're just getting a middle of the green yardage or something that's off up to +/- 3 yards.

[Tax Man Golfeth]

I'm happy when my ball gets up in the air and flies in the general direction of the green. :-)

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by Paradox

the blind shot thing isn't exactly a detraction for a laser.  All you have to do is go to the point where the shot wouldn't be blind...shoot your target..turn around..shoot the ground where your ball is.  Add them together...you got your distance.  If you're blind all the way to the green(an uphill hole on a shelf) then shoot the top of the hill at the front of the green.  Check flag color and get a decent yardage.  On most greens though...I can shoot the front..the flag, and the back in the area I wanna land the ball in a span of 10 seconds.  No moving cursors or playing with screens or anything else..just three button pushes.

I have an actual golf gps, not an app.   Mine can give me yardages to the front, center & back of the green, as well as hazards, etc..  with the push of one button and if I push that button as I approach my ball, I will know the yardage upon arrival.   If I choose to pick a particular layup spot, I can do that too and still have it done in less than 10 seconds.   Is it as precise as a laser?   Probably not (although after comparing it to the lasers most are using at my home course, it hasn't been off enough to change my thought on one single shot).   Given my current ability, there is absolutely no need for me to have any better accuracy than it gives me and I am not wasting my time or anyone else's by walking halfway to a hole to get a more precise measurement.