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When even a normal pace is too slow

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Originally Posted by phan52

First of all, I only take a cart when it is late and I am in a rush, and I never play well under those conditions. So I prefer to walk and it doesn't matter if I get 18 in, I will always enjoy it more while walking. And if the golf course is busy at all, you will be fighting that with a cart. I only need to play 18 holes if I am in a tournament or a friendly match with my friends.

Plus, I don't think always playing by yourself will ever challenge you as a golfer. I can get into Zen mode when i am by myself and hit great shots. But the ones that last, the ones that I always remember, are the ones in competition when I take somebody down with a great golf shot. It is the challenge of HAVING to hit the shot for the win.  I get a lot more satisfaction playing in a group and having a friendly match. Even doing that in a little nassau is very satisfying.


You will get no argument from me on this. I would love to play in a regular group as opposed to by myself all the time but for many many years I have not had that luxury. I have branched out more lately and play a lot more in tournaments or regular games at my club and sometimes I play well and sometimes I do not.

I just love challenging myself and golf is great for that. Its not me vs you are anyone else. Its me vs the course and ultimately that means me vs me. Mental issues were mentioned above and that is what I am always working on. Overcoming my temper, controlling my emotions and staying focused and determined. When I do that whether by myself or in a tournament I am satisfied.

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

My best guess is you take too many strokes tee to green in random directions. It's difficult without ever seeing your swing or pre-shot routine where you waste time or why you hit the ball so short. Walking speed - to the ball and on the greens - is also a likely factor. That you had to clarify the Swedish twins were women might be clue as well.

Too many strokes in random directions?  Typically, yes.  That's why I don't shoot in the 80's or 70's, same as most people who shoot in the 90s.

Why would you assume I "hit the ball so short?"  I hit the following distances:

SW - 90

52* GW - 108 (new wedge I hit to 3.5 feet on 108yd hole two weeks ago first round I played with it)

PW - 125

9 - 135

8 - 148

7 - 160

6 - 170

5 - 180

4 - 200

4H - 195 (not sure why I carry it - the 4i usually works as well or better for me)

3H- 210

3W - 240

D - 250 +/- 40yrds depending on how well I've hit it.

Add another 5yds to the irons after I'm warmed up and I'm having a good day.  Certainly not tour length, but longer than most of the people with whom I've played.

As for the clarification "women," had I omitted it, a wiseass like yourself would have asked "Swedish twins, you mean Sven and Erik?"

Played a slow front 9 last weekend, followed by swapping partners at the turn to mix-up the 5 of us.  Played the second 9 with a fairly quick-playing, long-hitting friend (who actually did have a 300yd drive).  On two holes we spent about 3 minutes each hunting for balls hit into deep grass, stopped the beer cart girl once, had to wait for the group ahead of us on one hole for about 5 minutes.  The 9 holes took 1hr 45 minutes, 15 of which we could have trimmed off by eliminating the above.  That's still a 3-hour round.  Sorry, I just don't see trimming a full hour off that and I can't imagine wanting to do so.  I hate feeling rushed when I've got a fastplaying single or twosome behind me and wouldn't want to keep up that pace of hurried play if there was no reason to do so.  You see, I actually enjoy being outside and I like to take in the sights and sounds, appreciating the flora, the fauna, and the course architecture as I play.

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Originally Posted by Wisguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

My best guess is you take too many strokes tee to green in random directions. It's difficult without ever seeing your swing or pre-shot routine where you waste time or why you hit the ball so short. Walking speed - to the ball and on the greens - is also a likely factor. That you had to clarify the Swedish twins were women might be clue as well.

Too many strokes in random directions?  Typically, yes.  That's why I don't shoot in the 80's or 70's, same as most people who shoot in the 90s.

Why would you assume I "hit the ball so short?"  I hit the following distances:

SW - 90

52* GW - 108 (new wedge I hit to 3.5 feet on 108yd hole two weeks ago first round I played with it)

PW - 125

9 - 135

8 - 148

7 - 160

6 - 170

5 - 180

4 - 200

4H - 195 (not sure why I carry it - the 4i usually works as well or better for me)

3H- 210

3W - 240

D - 250 +/- 40yrds depending on how well I've hit it.

Add another 5yds to the irons after I'm warmed up and I'm having a good day.  Certainly not tour length, but longer than most of the people with whom I've played.

As for the clarification "women," had I omitted it, a wiseass like yourself would have asked "Swedish twins, you mean Sven and Erik?"

Played a slow front 9 last weekend, followed by swapping partners at the turn to mix-up the 5 of us.  Played the second 9 with a fairly quick-playing, long-hitting friend (who actually did have a 300yd drive).  On two holes we spent about 3 minutes each hunting for balls hit into deep grass, stopped the beer cart girl once, had to wait for the group ahead of us on one hole for about 5 minutes.  The 9 holes took 1hr 45 minutes, 15 of which we could have trimmed off by eliminating the above.  That's still a 3-hour round.  Sorry, I just don't see trimming a full hour off that and I can't imagine wanting to do so.  I hate feeling rushed when I've got a fastplaying single or twosome behind me and wouldn't want to keep up that pace of hurried play if there was no reason to do so.  You see, I actually enjoy being outside and I like to take in the sights and sounds, appreciating the flora, the fauna, and the course architecture as I play.

Not sure what to believe here. That you can't grasp how even though you could play 9 holes in 1.5 hours (your estimate) yet a singleton playing off a single digit index (i.e. much better than you) shouldn't expect to play in under 1 hour while using a power cart with an open course. You're not talking about trimming an hour off that time. You're talking about a 1/2 hour, per 9 holes, which is easily attributed to hitting fewer shots per player, by half as many players. That you can't get this makes me doubt the rest of your data, just like you doubt single digit players who consistently drive at the upper end of your range.

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I tend to agree with Wisguy ...  The only time I've played a round on an empty course (not counting Hawaii, with the wife as a caddie, where we took our sweet time) was several weeks ago - with Beachcomber, as a twosome, with a cart - and we were the first group off in the morning.  I want to say we played the front nine in 80-90 minutes, roughly, and it felt like we were hauling ass around that course.  I cannot imagine playing much faster than we did, so ....

I tried to do a little math with these parameters:

1. 6500 yd flat, empty course.

2. A decent golfer playing by himself

3. Averages 30 seconds per shot (this might be the weak link because it's a wild guess, but seems reasonable)

4. Shoots an 80

If you assume the walking speed as 4 mph and an average of 30 yards between each green and the following tee, he would walk roughly 4 miles.

Total playing time = 1 hour, 40 minutes.

Conclusion:  I gotta find me a decent course where I can play alone and walk!

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@ the OP:

Golf is telling you that you have a personality flaw --- work on developing some patience.

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I have to admit that I have a similar problem.  Alone and with no one in the way, I walk 18 at the local course in about 2 and a half hours.  ...and my game seems to devolve when I go at a slower pace.

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Originally Posted by Roblar

@ the OP:

Golf is telling you that you have a personality flaw --- work on developing some patience.


I have many flaws no doubt. Patience is an interesting one. Its not that I am impatient though, its that in the exhibition of that patience I over think, over analyze and basically get in my own way.

I played baseball for many years to a pretty high level and there is little time to think when a 90 mph fast ball is coming at you or a hot shot is hit up the middle. You just react and your mind and body work to accomplish the task. I guess that is what I am conditioned for and I try to replicate that with my golf pace.

As for the calculations above: I'd say in one of my quick pace rounds, I take 15-20 seconds per shot and probably 10 seconds per putt. So if 80 is the number with 32 putts (good average for me) then we are talking about 20 minutes of actual club swinging. Let's just say 30 minutes to cover the high end. On a 6500 yd course (again good average for the courses I play) in a cart going about 12 mph, you could drive the whole course in 20 minutes (I used 7000 yds to account for a little zig zag and distance between holes). Let's again say 30 since you would not drive 12 mph the whole time when actually playing. So you are talking about 60 minutes of drive and swing time.

I have never played a round in 60 minutes, but I've been close before.

So the argument of COULD you is not really a question. The argument is SHOULD you. That is what most of the discussion is about and on this I say to each his own. My endless need to get to the next shot and suck in the ecstasy that is hitting a golf ball may not be your cup of tea. However your desire to take in nature and just enjoy 4 hours of no work and no chores is not always my desire. I am using "you" here in a generic sense and not referencing anyone in particular.

Sometimes I love just enjoying the day and spending time with friends or even just the peace and quiet but sometimes I am hell bent on getting to that next shot. Heck I may go right now (7:44 pm central) and hit balls at the driving range I'm so fired up :)

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I tend to agree with Wisguy ...  The only time I've played a round on an empty course (not counting Hawaii, with the wife as a caddie, where we took our sweet time) was several weeks ago - with Beachcomber, as a twosome, with a cart - and we were the first group off in the morning.  I want to say we played the front nine in 80-90 minutes, roughly, and it felt like we were hauling ass around that course.  I cannot imagine playing much faster than we did, so ....

I tried to do a little math with these parameters:

1. 6500 yd flat, empty course.

2. A decent golfer playing by himself

3. Averages 30 seconds per shot (this might be the weak link because it's a wild guess, but seems reasonable)

4. Shoots an 80

If you assume the walking speed as 4 mph and an average of 30 yards between each green and the following tee, he would walk roughly 4 miles.

Total playing time = 1 hour, 40 minutes.

Conclusion:  I gotta find me a decent course where I can play alone and walk!

You agree with someone who says it's not likely for a single digit index to play 18 holes in a power cart with an open course in less than 2 hours, then you outline how it would be plausible to do it under 2 hours ON FOOT. Sorry, but who were you agreeing with exactly?

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

You agree with someone who says it's not likely for a single digit index to play 18 holes in a power cart with an open course in less than 2 hours, then you outline how it would be plausible to do it under 2 hours ON FOOT. Sorry, but who were you agreeing with exactly?

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  My first thought was to agree with him, based on my experience.  Then I figured since I'm a math nerd that I could calc it out to try and "prove" one way or the other.  My goal with that was to show that you couldn't possibly play that fast unless you were running or not taking any time to line up your shots, or something like that.  Then I could excitedly come on here and go "Sean_Miller ... in your face!  You got burned!"  (Or something childish like that - in my 1980's childhood it was "Moted and Corroded")

Then after I did the math, I proved my hypothesis wrong.  Figured I'd look pretty silly telling myself I got burned.

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