Slanted Tee box question

[Dave2512]

Can't say I've ever seen it. Even in the dark days, pre Tiger and the golf boom, on older courses. The worst boxes I've seen have been on a crappy pitch and putt courses, designs over existing land that just didn't make sense. But on a regulation course never anything that was so bad an adjustment had to be made. A bigger problem here is the divots.

[Par Fore]

A local track I used to play a lot had this issue.....every tee box, on both courses, seemed to slant uphill on a right hander, almost like they were set up to aid the slicer crowd.....and I play a draw....I found two remedies....on the holes with elevate tee shots or limited trees, I just started the ball over the right trees for a 20 plus yard draw.......when trees were close to the box, I just played a fade from the left side of the box...hope this helps...

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Paradox

If a tee box is REALLY REALLY bad(as you can sometimes get with public courses that get a lot of wear) I would just try to find a level spot ANYWHERE behind the tee markers.

Some courses won't take the time to till up a worn out tee box and re-do it, which is a shame because after many years they can become unusable.

My home course in Colorado (which is a muni, by the way), tends to be the opposite.  The tee boxes develop a crown, because most players tee up near the middle, and right at the front edge of where the markers are.  Thus when divots are taken and refilled with sand/seed mix, it tends to build up that portion of the box, eventually creating a hump which has to be graded and resodded every few years.  My course has a regular and continual process of doing a couple of holes each year on the 18 hole course, and one hole each year on the Executive 9 and the Par 3 course.  Over the last decade they have extended the process to include expanding the tees to accommodate a 4th set of tees, and moving the forward tee up farther to make the course play more equally for the ladies/juniors etc.

[colin007]

some of you must me pretty fortunate to not have played on a slanted tee box.  they are quite common here, on almost all but the nicest courses.  its one of my top pet peeves.  really pisses me off.

[iacas]

All tee boxes are slanted. Something like a minimum of 1.5% or so, for drainage.

[divot dave]

Originally Posted by iacas

All tee boxes are slanted. Something like a minimum of 1.5% or so, for drainage.

interesting fact. although I doubt all public courses are investing the money to maintain that slant. The problem is when the slant moves the decimal point over 1 digit to the right.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'm not a physics guy, but thinking about the way the lie will affect the swing, I think it's more a matter of how the lie can change your swing plane. Since the shaft angle changes from standard when the ball is significantly above or below the feet, your plane with naturally change a bit. But it seems like many people have the tendency to get even flatter, more like a baseball swing, when the ball is well above the feet. The opposite seems true when the ball is below, the swing gets even more upright. My tendencies are to hook it when the ball is above my feet, and pull it when it's below my feet.

Picture yourself on a flat surface.  Address the ball with the club, making sure the club's lie is flat to the ground.  Okay, now lift the club head upward several inches (not back, like you were beginning the backswing, but directly up above your address spot).  If you could look at the bottom of your club, you could see that the lie of the club head has changed.  This simulates your side-hill lie (above your feet, with an angled club head lie).

Now you could have done two or three things to get this position.  You could have either straightened your back a bit (standing more upright) or you could have just lifted your arms/hands, or you could have done a little of both.  Each of these will effect your swing plane a little bit differently.

BUT...regardless of HOW you got there, when the ball is hit one thing is certain...the slope of the lie is going to make the ball want to go perpendicular to that lie.  Why?  Because your club is trying to lift the ball straight away from the ground, and the club is slanted just as much as the ground is on that side-hill lie.  So if you're right-handed and the ball is above your feet, it's going to go to the left of where your body is aimed (assuming you hit the ball with a square club face).  If the ball is below your feet, it's going to the right.  This effect is more dramatic with shorter clubs than with longer clubs because the more loft a club has, the more "away from the hill" the ball is trying to go.

Now one other thing you'll have to do is to move your body weight because if you're standing on a side-hill your center of gravity has moved.  If the ball is above your feet, you're going to have to lean a little forward to compensate (most people do this unconsciously in order to maintain balance).  If the ball is below your feet, you'll lean a little back to get weight back on your heels.

The swing plane, in relation to the ground, is going to change because of all these adjustments.  Some players have trouble with the weight shift since gravity is no longer perpendicular to the bottoms of your feet and end up hitting side-hill lies fat if the ball is above the feet (I do this way too often).

Now, if the ball is above your feet, and you have to aim to the right in order have the ball go straight toward the hole, remember that you've just created a slightly uphill lie because of the setup change.  You'll have to play the ball a little farther back in your stance to compensate for this, as well.

Bottom line is that, from this side-hill lie, make a few practice swings and see where the club is bottoming out.  This should tell you where in your stance the ball should be, as well as whether you're inadvertently introducing any changes in swing path because of the different swing plane.  This seems to work for me.

I know with my swing I probably shouldn't be giving a LOT of advice.  This is just what works for me.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Picture yourself on a flat surface.  Address the ball with the club, making sure the club's lie is flat to the ground.  Okay, now lift the club head upward several inches (not back, like you were beginning the backswing, but directly up above your address spot).  If you could look at the bottom of your club, you could see that the lie of the club head has changed.  This simulates your side-hill lie (above your feet, with an angled club head lie).

Now you could have done two or three things to get this position.  You could have either straightened your back a bit (standing more upright) or you could have just lifted your arms/hands, or you could have done a little of both.  Each of these will effect your swing plane a little bit differently.

BUT...regardless of HOW you got there, when the ball is hit one thing is certain...the slope of the lie is going to make the ball want to go perpendicular to that lie.  Why?  Because your club is trying to lift the ball straight away from the ground, and the club is slanted just as much as the ground is on that side-hill lie.  So if you're right-handed and the ball is above your feet, it's going to go to the left of where your body is aimed (assuming you hit the ball with a square club face).  If the ball is below your feet, it's going to the right.  This effect is more dramatic with shorter clubs than with longer clubs because the more loft a club has, the more "away from the hill" the ball is trying to go.

Now one other thing you'll have to do is to move your body weight because if you're standing on a side-hill your center of gravity has moved.  If the ball is above your feet, you're going to have to lean a little forward to compensate (most people do this unconsciously in order to maintain balance).  If the ball is below your feet, you'll lean a little back to get weight back on your heels.

The swing plane, in relation to the ground, is going to change because of all these adjustments.  Some players have trouble with the weight shift since gravity is no longer perpendicular to the bottoms of your feet and end up hitting side-hill lies fat if the ball is above the feet (I do this way too often).

Now, if the ball is above your feet, and you have to aim to the right in order have the ball go straight toward the hole, remember that you've just created a slightly uphill lie because of the setup change.  You'll have to play the ball a little farther back in your stance to compensate for this, as well.

Bottom line is that, from this side-hill lie, make a few practice swings and see where the club is bottoming out.  This should tell you where in your stance the ball should be, as well as whether you're inadvertently introducing any changes in swing path because of the different swing plane.  This seems to work for me.

I know with my swing I probably shouldn't be giving a LOT of advice.  This is just what works for me.

A good explanation for pulls, but the OP's question was about hooks off of an uphill lie. In extreme cases, a square clubface on a highly lofted club may create a shot that curves to the left, but it's a bit of a false draw. I think the OP is more concerned about hitting a big hook with a driver off of a more gentle slope.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by divot dave

I've developed a rather neutral swing over the course of the summer such that I have (for the most part) eliminated my slices and hooks and teeing off is usually straight on with maybe a little fade or very little draw. With that said, I've had a heck of a time maintaining that consistency when hitting on a slanted tee box where the ball is above or below my feet. The other day I hit a wicked hook into the trees while teeing off from a rather steep uphill slant.

My question(s): do you all experience the same problems and how do you successfully counteract a slanted tee box? What techniques have worked to neutralize the effect?

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

A good explanation for pulls, but the OP's question was about hooks off of an uphill lie. In extreme cases, a square clubface on a highly lofted club may create a shot that curves to the left, but it's a bit of a false draw. I think the OP is more concerned about hitting a big hook with a driver off of a more gentle slope.

I thought that he was talking about when (a) "the ball is above or below my feet" on a (b) "rather steep uphill slant".  From his description it sounded like he meant "side hill" rather than "uphill", and then you commented that you thought the reason the ball didn't go where it was aimed might be simply due to the swing plane (unless I misunderstood you, as well).

I was trying to explain the physics of why the ball went left on a side hill with the ball above the feet (for righties).  It's not about swing plane.  It's simply because the lie of the club has changed and it's no longer propelling the ball straight up...it's angling to the left.  What I did not add was that not only the initial direction is going to be left, but the axis of the spin will also be tilted because of the change in the lie of the club.  The more backspin you get on the club (he may get a lot of backspin from his driver...I don't know) the more it's going to hook as well.

So it's going to start left because the lie of the club is angled left, and it's going to curve left as well because of the change in the axis of the "backspin".

Man, I wish I could draw pictures to show you what I'm talking about because I'm not sure I'm painting a clear enough picture.