Not trying to be a jerk but seasoned short hitters, what is keeping you from hitting it over 250 on your drives?

[Datsyuk]

Originally Posted by Lihu

I looked at the top 100 of LPGA and top 100 of the PGA, and the difference ranges from 315 down to 275 for men and 275 down to 243 for the women. This does not sound like a huge difference, and I am sure the women players are not maxing out their swings either. They play shorter courses, so they might not need to hit that far.

I did not think to compare the two before, but it seems like the women players don't hit that short either. On the course, I saw a petite retired lady in front of us hit 240 yards, and her lady friends hit pretty well, too.

Those sounds like very long drivers for seniors. As in longer than almost every amateur I've ever seen hitting from the forward tees. They'd be hitting par 5s in 2 on a regular basis.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by Lihu

I looked at the top 100 of LPGA and top 100 of the PGA, and the difference ranges from 315 down to 275 for men and 275 down to 243 for the women. This does not sound like a huge difference, and I am sure the women players are not maxing out their swings either. They play shorter courses, so they might not need to hit that far.

I did not think to compare the two before, but it seems like the women players don't hit that short either. On the course, I saw a petite retired lady in front of us hit 240 yards, and her lady friends hit pretty well, too.

Trust me the women are trying to hit it as far as they can but women just don't generate clubhead speed like the men do except for the select few of women (Alexis Thompson, and Michelle Wie can really crank it out there) but most women on tour are hitting fairway woods from 200 yards out where the men are hitting 6 and 7 irons.  Courses are setup for women just like they are for the men and that is why women don't play from the tips or their scores wouldn't likely be all that good. You put even the LPGA ladies on the tips at Bethpage Black at 7500 yards and you are going to see some terrible scores I assure you.

A male low single digit handicap would give most any LPGA pro hitting it 243 or less off the tee a tough time on a course over 7000 yards I bet. I used to watch my friend play a pro from Switzerland and she insisted on playing from the tips with him and there was simply 6 holes that she had zero chance to reach the green in regulation. Yeah she would get up and down half the time but that was still at least three bogeys that you could put on her card before the round even started and my friend could shoot around par or under very consistently so he would beat her more often than not. From the women's tees she was a long hitter and would shoot 5 or 6 under but her length didn't cut it from the tips.

Women and men athletically arent the same and within the gender we are not the same no matter how good the technique is.

[zipazoid]

I'm 54 & I hit it about 240 off the tee. 5 handicap.

Main reason I don't hit it farther is my technique. I'm more of a 'Steve Stricker' style of swing with a lower clubhead speed. For me to gain enough clubhead speed to hit it 250+ would require totally changing how I hit the ball, and I'm not willing to do that.

So there's your answer in my instance as to why I don't hit it farther. Because I don't want to.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I'm 54 & I hit it about 240 off the tee. 5 handicap.

Main reason I don't hit it farther is my technique. I'm more of a 'Steve Stricker' style of swing with a lower clubhead speed. For me to gain enough clubhead speed to hit it 250+ would require totally changing how I hit the ball, and I'm not willing to do that.

So there's your answer in my instance as to why I don't hit it farther. Because I don't want to.

Well I'd like to see you maintain that 5 handicap from the tips over here in the middle east where there are courses that are 7800 yards long and have par 3's that are 245 yards and flat.  Even on my home course in Kuwait, which is only about 6800 yards,  there are 4 holes that are around 475-490 from the tips, and I'm sorry but no one makes a living going driver driver into par fours. You simply don't have an answer for a 630 yard par 5 or a 500 yard par 4, or a 245 yard par three.

The fact of the matter is you would if you could... If you could hit it 20 plus yards further you would....but the fact is that at the swingspeed required you don't consistently square the clubface to maintain accuracy.  You don't....because you can't...and their is nothing wrong with that. We all would if we could.

I hit it much further than you do and I'm not a 5 yet, but then again I don't know what kind of course you are playing. Corey Pavin with his 250 driving average better be playing really really well or he's got no shot simply because others are up to 60 yards by him.  60 yards is the gap between my PW and 5 iron and that is a huge deal regardless of how good your short game is.

[colin007]

well, since this is now a pissing match, id much rather live in Orlando than Kuwait.

[chilly]

Why would his hcp change, the course rating would change with the length, so he could stay the same hcp playing higher scores.

[chilly]

Just relating a bit of experience.  I recently, for a span of  two months or so, lost almost 10mph of clubhead speed and started hitting a big cut off the tee that barely got off the ground at times.  Swing just went to crap.  Lucky to drive it 240.  The thing is, it was pretty accurate, and I hit a bunch of fairways.  Ball didn't go as far, so it didn't go as far offline when not hit as well...pretty simple.  I shot 79 for the first time and dropped my handicap 3 strokes in that timeframe, playing 6600yd courses.  If my goals were different, I could just say screw it and keep that swing, it scores pretty well.

I realize that it has it's limitations so I did "fix" the swing here in the last couple weeks.  To be honest, I couldn't handle being shorter even though I knew it was helping my game in some respects.  If I didn't have the time to put in the practice and figure out what was going on, I can see how a guy would just stick to what works and just enjoy playing as-is.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

Well I'd like to see you maintain that 5 handicap from the tips over here in the middle east where there are courses that are 7800 yards long and have par 3's that are 245 yards and flat.  Even on my home course in Kuwait, which is only about 6800 yards,  there are 4 holes that are around 475-490 from the tips, and I'm sorry but no one makes a living going driver driver into par fours. You simply don't have an answer for a 630 yard par 5 or a 500 yard par 4, or a 245 yard par three.

The fact of the matter is you would if you could... If you could hit it 20 plus yards further you would....but the fact is that at the swingspeed required you don't consistently square the clubface to maintain accuracy.  You don't....because you can't...and their is nothing wrong with that. We all would if we could.

I hit it much further than you do and I'm not a 5 yet, but then again I don't know what kind of course you are playing. Corey Pavin with his 250 driving average better be playing really really well or he's got no shot simply because others are up to 60 yards by him.  60 yards is the gap between my PW and 5 iron and that is a huge deal regardless of how good your short game is.

Well thanks for telling me how you think I should play.

Yeah, the courses around here (Orlando) aren't 7800 yards, but we're also not in an arid desert. My guess is my 240y 'Orlando distance' would rock out to somewhere around 280y where you are. My 5h is based on sea-level, humid central Florida courses at around 6600y.

But given I am pretty solid throughout my game including pretty damn tidy around the greens I bet I could maintain a 5 about anywhere.

If I wanted to I could add distance. It's not that I can't - it's that I don't want to go thru what would be required to do it.I don't want to go about tearing down & reconstructing my swing to do so. The way I play works for me, and adding 20 yards would not necessarilty equate to lower scores. It might, but if I lost my accuracy, I'd rather be 240 down the middle, thank you.

So "the fact of the matter is" (I hate that phrase but you used it thus I quoted it) I like how I play now.

[MacDutch]

And the answer to the long holes is called up and down. Nothing to it. You hit your driver somewhere near this 245 yards par 3, chip, putt next hole.

[HackerUpNorth]

Interesting theories, I think a lot of it has to do with genetics and natural ability.  My brother in law, and co worker both have way better/consistent form than I do, but are regularly hitting 4 iron when I'm using 7.  Why its simply easy for some people to pick up speed, as it is easy for some people to hit the green from 150 yards out no matter what club you give them.  Flexibility I think is highly overrated, as they are both extremely flexible and have really long backswings, but because they can't generate high speeds, I think from watching them it actually hurts their distance.  If they shortened their swing, then I believe they could accelerate through the ball and hit it further.  You have to be careful when stating distances though, becuase I use to hit my PW 170 yards, but that was because I was delofting the hell out of the ball, and placing it in the wrong part of my stance, now I hit a high 150 -155 yard ball all day long, that has a nice one bounce landing.

[Lihu]

Those sounds like very long drivers for seniors. As in longer than almost every amateur I've ever seen hitting from the forward tees. They'd be hitting par 5s in 2 on a regular basis.

Unfortunately, I would not recognize a golf pro or retired golf pro if I saw one. Who knows who they were, but they certainly knew what they were doing on the tee box as I watched them. :-)

[Lihu]

Well I'd like to see you maintain that 5 handicap from the tips over here in the middle east where there are courses that are 7800 yards long and have par 3's that are 245 yards and flat.  Even on my home course in Kuwait, which is only about 6800 yards,  there are 4 holes that are around 475-490 from the tips, and I'm sorry but no one makes a living going driver driver into par fours. You simply don't have an answer for a 630 yard par 5 or a 500 yard par 4, or a 245 yard par three.   The fact of the matter is you would if you could... If you could hit it 20 plus yards further you would....but the fact is that at the swingspeed required you don't consistently square the clubface to maintain accuracy.  You don't....because you can't...and their is nothing wrong with that. We all would if we could.  I hit it much further than you do and I'm not a 5 yet, but then again I don't know what kind of course you are playing. Corey Pavin with his 250 driving average better be playing really really well or he's got no shot simply because others are up to 60 yards by him.  60 yards is the gap between my PW and 5 iron and that is a huge deal regardless of how good your short game is.

From reading hundreds of his posts, I have not known Zipazoid to over-embellish anything.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Well thanks for telling me how you think I should play.

Yeah, the courses around here (Orlando) aren't 7800 yards, but we're also not in an arid desert. My guess is my 240y 'Orlando distance' would rock out to somewhere around 280y where you are. My 5h is based on sea-level, humid central Florida courses at around 6600y.

But given I am pretty solid throughout my game including pretty damn tidy around the greens I bet I could maintain a 5 about anywhere.

If I wanted to I could add distance. It's not that I can't - it's that I don't want to go thru what would be required to do it.I don't want to go about tearing down & reconstructing my swing to do so. The way I play works for me, and adding 20 yards would not necessarilty equate to lower scores. It might, but if I lost my accuracy, I'd rather be 240 down the middle, thank you.

So "the fact of the matter is" (I hate that phrase but you used it thus I quoted it) I like how I play now.

Saadiyat Beach is the golf course that I'm talking about and it is located in Abu Dhabi and the humidity will put Orlando's to shame (which is crazy to say cause I thought that Florida was pretty bad)....and we are right next to the ocean so we are at sea level also so there isn't a distance advantage at all. The fairways here are green and thick just like in the states so huge roll out isn't gonna happen either.

You guys are right that a 5 handicap is a 5 anywhere even if you would be very unlikely to shoot 5 over on alot of the courses here from the tips. You are still a 5 regardless because of slope rating/course rating  account for it.

My apologies for this isn't a pissing contest....my rationale is that if MOST people could hit is further, they would and I think that is a pretty true statement.  I'm definately not trying to tell you how to play at all because I will take an iron off the tee in a hearbeat because I'm trying to score and not just hit it far like some of my friends do.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by colin007

well, since this is now a pissing match, id much rather live in Orlando than Kuwait.

Well I think you would be pretty surprised at the golf courses in the region for there are quite a few beautiful golf courses.  I won't say that Kuwait is a vacation spot but Qatar, Dubai or Abu Dhabi very much are and they love their golf there.  Most Tour Pros will tell you that they love the middle east swing becauses the courses and the hospitality are second to none. Anytime someone says middle east people think camels and war but that just simply isn't the case at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3pHVDIyE5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature;=endscreen&v;=42iQVghQxgw

Most don't think of this when they think of the middle east.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

Saadiyat Beach is the golf course that I'm talking about and it is located in Abu Dhabi and the humidity will put Orlando's to shame (which is crazy to say cause I thought that Florida was pretty bad)....and we are right next to the ocean so we are at sea level also so there isn't a distance advantage at all. The fairways here are green and thick just like in the states so huge roll out isn't gonna happen either.

Then why would you play it at 7800 yards? That sounds like death march. I see no fun in that.

And by the way, a mini-rant, which is also a bit of a thread hijack. So you've been warned. -

I think a lot of golfers over-state how far they hit the ball. I'll start with myself. I hit it 240 off the tee. Two-forty. That sounds short, but it's a legit 240, and I'll play with guys & when I hit a drive they're like 'Wow! You really tagged that!' And I'll say yeah. 240. 'What? No way. That was 280.' No, it's not. It's 240. See? The hole is 380 & I'm 10 yards inside the 150. These same guys think they hit it 270, but more often than not, I'm the one hitting last into the green.

So it's guys like this that "think" they hit it like 300. They don't. And I've played a lot of golf with a lot of guys, some really good. And I would say that maybe 5 percent of the guys I've played with actually hit it 300. But I bet if you were to ask all of them, half probably think they hit it 300.

I call it the 'big dick' phenomenon.

[David in FL]

Well thanks for telling me how you think I should play. Yeah, the courses around here (Orlando) aren't 7800 yards, but we're also not in an arid desert. My guess is my 240y 'Orlando distance' would rock out to somewhere around 280y where you are. My 5h is based on sea-level, humid central Florida courses at around 6600y. But given I am pretty solid throughout my game including pretty damn tidy around the greens I bet I could maintain a 5 about anywhere. If I wanted to I could add distance. It's not that I can't - it's that I don't want to go thru what would be required to do it.I don't want to go about tearing down & reconstructing my swing to do so. The way I play works for me, and adding 20 yards would not necessarilty equate to lower scores. It might, but if I lost my accuracy, I'd rather be 240 down the middle, thank you. So "the fact of the matter is" (I hate that phrase but you used it thus I quoted it) I like how I play now.

I'm thinking of one little 6,000 yd par 70 course that would likely chew him up and spit him out..... ;-)

[joekelly]

A bit off topic, but have just read of some of the Asian pros, even the big guys from India, wondering how they will cope this weekend at Mission Hills in China.  The Olazabal course is 7300 yds and these guys just don't hit the ball far enough to compete.  They can wait 3 weeks and play Hong Kong, where the track is far shorter.

Personally, i am curious to learn 'how far' for me since i recently bought a Nikon range finder. Frankly, i don't expect much but hope and work never die.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I'm thinking of one little 6,000 yd par 70 course that would likely chew him up and spit him out.....

Name it...I'll put it on the list. Most short courses combat that by having small greens so I'm guessing this particular course is pretty much in that pedigree.  I don't hit driver unless I have to on the course.  I love playing to specific distances by taking iron off the tee...that was the main reason that my handicap dropped to where it is now.  I'm not buyin it til I see it because no matter how tricked out the course is...they would never put tour pros on a course that short today because they'd shoot 40 under over 4 days and the cut would at 10 under.