What Did You Learn From Last Week's Winner on the PGA Tour?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

Define "steep" in this context.  I wouldn't call his swing "steep." It's steeper than it has been in the past because in the past he was looping it up, out, and under - the under part is a fairly "flat" plane, all else equal.

Look at how high his left shoulder is at impact - and how low his right shoulder is.  That is a very steep AoA.

[Beachcomber]

Watch this video too... When his timing is off... Duck, Draw, Down!!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Look at how high his left shoulder is at impact - and how low his right shoulder is.  That is a very steep AoA.

I think you're mis-using the word "steep." First, those shoulder positions don't guarantee a steep AoA. If anything, a high left shoulder would do a lot to shallow the AoA. And second, "steep" almost always refers to the shaft plane, wouldn't you agree?

His shoulders are steep. Yes. I think he's okay with that for now given the shot he's absolutely trying to avoid...

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you're mis-using the word "steep." First, those shoulder positions don't guarantee a steep AoA. If anything, a high left shoulder would do a lot to shallow the AoA. And second, "steep" almost always refers to the shaft plane, wouldn't you agree?

His shoulders are steep. Yes. I think he's okay with that for now given the shot he's absolutely trying to avoid...

When his hands are that far ahead of the club head - he has a steep shaft angle and a negative AoA.  He has a steep shoulder angle.  He has a steep hip angle.  His entire left side has to go up - to pull the club out of the ground -  and prevent totally hitting it like this every time....

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

When his hands are that far ahead of the club head - he has a steep shaft angle and a negative AoA.  He has a steep shoulder angle.  He has a steep hip angle.  His entire left side has to go up - to pull the club out of the ground -  and prevent totally hitting it like this every time....

Tiger's AoA isn't as negative as it was a few years ago, nor is his path anywhere near as far to the right.

His shoulder angles have always tended to be steeper. When Tiger gets into trouble he has a HIGH right shoulder. his hips are almost exactly the same as 2008, too.

Tiger squats more than virtually anyone. Understand that and you'll begin to understand his shoulder angles.

So again, what part of Tiger's swing is "steep" exactly, compared to previous years? His shaft plane is a bit steeper, but again, that's a GOOD thing, because he's not getting the club stuck behind him and having to swing out +10° and throw his right shoulder high in a late attempt to get the face less than +10° as well.

The swing above Tiger attributed to his indecision. It's not like he does that twice a round. C'mon. :)

[Jhwarren]

http://www.pga.com/golf-instruction/lesson-learned/fundamentals/lesson-learned-mickelsons-never-changing-routine

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jhwarren

http://www.pga.com/golf-instruction/lesson-learned/fundamentals/lesson-learned-mickelsons-never-changing-routine

Phil has a lot of goofy things in his swing, and it's not always seen as esthetically pleasing slowed down. When he's on, he's controlling his clubface well - when he's off, he's not. A bit more reliant on timing than some other swings, perhaps - but with 41 PGA Tour wins and multiple majors, it's "on" often enough. :D

[Jhwarren]

Originally Posted by iacas

Phil has a lot of goofy things in his swing, and it's not always seen as esthetically pleasing slowed down. When he's on, he's controlling his clubface well - when he's off, he's not. A bit more reliant on timing than some other swings, perhaps - but with 41 PGA Tour wins and multiple majors, it's "on" often enough. :D

Totally agree. I think it is safe to say that Phil has some "educated hands."

[Jhwarren]

Anybody got any experience with or thoughts on the claw putting grip?

It definitely worked well for him last week.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Jhwarren

Anybody got any experience with or thoughts on the claw putting grip?

It definitely worked well for him last week.

I've tried it in the past and I was able to keep the putter more in line, but I had problems with distance control. I didn't really give it enough time to work it out.

[Beachcomber]

Phil tinkers with his putting more than me.  That is what I learned...

[mvmac]

I learned that whatever Butch tells Phil, it puts him in the right mind set.  Didn't that happen last year or another time, Butch came in for an "emergency session" and Phil won?  They worked on keeping the rear knee more flexed or something.  Then Phil goes out there and does what he does but being around Butch definitely helps.

In terms of his swing, he does a lot of great things but this stands out and the reason he struggles off the tee.  Also why he absolutely hammers his irons.  Interesting pic, tend to see the pros go "steep to shallow" with the shaft.

Something like this

[iacas]

This doesn't directly answer the question, but I think it does a good job of starting the conversation for this week.

Note too Rocco Mediate won on the Champions Tour. :)

[phan52]

Snedeker does not baby his putts. Bang!...back of the cup!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phan52

Snedeker does not baby his putts. Bang!...back of the cup!

I disagree. Most of the putts he made (outside of a few feet) fell in with what I would call a medium speed.

Trying to bang your putts in (particularly outside of a few feet) is a recipe for three-putting.

[Stretch]

Think he's probably referring more to the appearance of Sneds's putting stroke. Doesn't ease through the ball, gives it a distinct hit.

[Beachcomber]

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by phan52

Snedeker does not baby his putts. Bang!...back of the cup!

Originally Posted by iacas

I disagree. Most of the putts he made (outside of a few feet) fell in with what I would call a medium speed.

Trying to bang your putts in (particularly outside of a few feet) is a recipe for three-putting.

He has that short "pop" stroke where he even recoils a bit at the end, as opposed to a "smooth" stroke with a longer follow through.  I think it kind of gives off the appearance of being "aggressive" simply due to that fact.

I didn't learn this from him this week, but I love when he wins because it's front and center ... you don't need to play at a snails pace to be good.  That dude makes his decision and he's ready to pull the trigger.  It was kinda funny watching him twiddling his thumbs in the fairway of number 2 yesterday (with club in hand) just itching for the green to clear so he could stiff that 4 iron and make eagle.

Even better was on the tee of same hole, as soon as the fairway cleared he was ready to go, but had to wait for a bunch of people to walk across tha fairway first.  He didn't care, and hit his tee shot (right down the middle) before they were even all out of view.