Johnny Miller: Ben Hogan's Real Secret

[cipher]

Oh boy, here we go.  What do you guys think!

http://www.golf.com/video/johnny-miller-ben-hogans-real-secret

[cipher]

I should clarify, please do not post what you think Ben Hogan's secret was.  There are plenty of dead end posts for that.  The what do you think, is in regards to the tip.

[shortstop20]

I think that was just an idiosyncrasy Hogan had that other people have followed. Getting to that finish position might help someone who fights the hooks straighten out their ball flight though.

[onephenom]

I think he doesn't know why that helped (if it helps at all, or really is just an idiosyncrasy). Well... clearly he didn't, because he doesn't know ball flight laws. Maybe trying to get to that follow through promotes a slight out to in, which leads to a fade... but not because it opens the face. Either way, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by onephenom

I think he doesn't know why that helped (if it helps at all, or really is just an idiosyncrasy). Well... clearly he didn't, because he doesn't know ball flight laws. Maybe trying to get to that follow through promotes a slight out to in, which leads to a fade... but not because it opens the face. Either way, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yeah what is funny about it is that he describes it as if the follow through motion and how you hold your club at the end is what promotes the shot shape.

[apex53]

The picture they used on the Golf Magazine iPad app version isn't even Hogan. It's a picture of Jack Fleck.

[boogielicious]

I wonder how much he got paid for that?

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I wonder how much he got paid for that?

If he gets paid to give bad advice, why can't I get paid for giving good advice?

[logman]

Originally Posted by onephenom

I think he doesn't know why that helped (if it helps at all, or really is just an idiosyncrasy). Well... clearly he didn't, because he doesn't know ball flight laws. Maybe trying to get to that follow through promotes a slight out to in, which leads to a fade... but not because it opens the face. Either way, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I don't understand. Isn't he saying that finishing with the palm facing the target likely to open the face and therefor create a cut. I would agree with that. And why do you say he doesn't understand the ball flight laws?

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by logman

I don't understand. Isn't he saying that finishing with the palm facing the target likely to open the face and therefor create a cut. I would agree with that. And why do you say he doesn't understand the ball flight laws?

Having the clubface open doesn't create a cut. Having an out to in path does. So he doesn't understand the http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[logman]

OK then.

[shortstop20]

Having the clubface open doesn't create a cut. Having an out to in path does. So he doesn't understand the [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws]http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws[/URL]

A cut can be hit with any path. The face simply needs to be open to that path.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by shortstop20

A cut can be hit with any path. The face simply needs to be open to that path.

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

[EverythingGolf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by onephenom

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

Shortstop is correct, the path is all that matters. I can aim off the planet and still hit a fade/cut as long as my face is open to the path.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by shortstop20

A cut can be hit with any path. The face simply needs to be open to that path.

Originally Posted by onephenom

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

It is true. And given a path of whatever, a face that's "open" to it will produce a cut. It's not a bad article - it's just one I don't think most golfers need (since most golfers hit cuts or slices already).

The path only has to be "out to in" relative to the face. Which is the same as saying face open to path.

---

Again, for a year or so now, we're trying to use words the way they tend to be heard:

Relative to target we'll say right or left.

Relative to path we'll say open or closed.

So to hit a playable draw (for a RHG), there are two ways to say it:

1) The clubface is right of the target, with the path farther to the right.

2) The clubface is right of the target, but closed to the path.

Reverse for a playable fade.

[cipher]

I think the article is actually pretty bad, because it describes the follow through basically as the reason for the fade.  What he is getting at may be accurate but he never says it.  Any weekend duffer trying to make sense of it, I think would be confused.  What the follow through basically promotes is holding the face open longer in relation to the swing path, but he never says that or offers any explanation as to what doing something after you have already hit the ball has an affect on how the ball moves.  I agree that it is kind of a useless tip even if he had presented it correctly, because most people already hit fades.

[saevel25]

Well it develops a feel, a Hogan might have felt he had to get to that position to hold off his hook that he battled with. So he wasn't trying to feel impact, but just ending up at a position in the finish that got the shot he wanted.

[shortstop20]

Originally Posted by onephenom

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

LOL. The ball doesn't have a clue what kind of path it has been hit with, whether it be inside-out or outside-in because the ball doesn't know what your stance line is. It reacts based on whether the face is open, square or closed to the path.