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Posted

I don't know off the top of my head. I'm going to eat breakfast with my family now, so by the time I go back and find it, you could have found it already yourself. Teach a man to fish, and all

ok billchao...I checked and I don't hear anything about back foot instep pressure at the top of the swing.

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


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Posted
ok billchao...I checked and I don't hear anything about back foot instep pressure at the top of the swing.

See with your eyes, you don't see the whole video, yet.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted

See with your eyes, you don't see the whole video, yet.

I have a feeling you don't know where it is either.

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


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Posted
I have a feeling you don't know where it is either.

Don't need to because I know the answer and I knew where to LOOK.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted

Don't need to because I know the answer and I knew where to LOOK.

I'll wait for iacas.

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


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Posted

@freedrop , what do you think this is?

  • Upvote 1

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted

@freedrop, what do you think this is?

I don't know billchao,please direct me to where weight on the right foot instep is verbally mentioned.....it is possible that this particular weight distribution is not an issue for Erik and Dave.

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


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Posted
I don't know billchao,please direct me to where weight on the right foot instep is verbally mentioned.....it is possible that this particular weight distribution is not an issue for Erik and Dave.

I never said it was mentioned verbally, nor did you ask until now. Like I said, everything you want to know is all there. BTW the guy in the red shirt is Grant Waite.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted

I don't know billchao,please direct me to where weight on the right foot instep is verbally mentioned.....it is possible that this particular weight distribution is not an issue for Erik and Dave.

I haven't watched this video in months, but look at the pressure plate - the color and graph tells you the placement of weight on the rear foot at a particular spot in the swing.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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Posted

I haven't watched this video in months, but look at the pressure plate - the color and graph tells you the placement of weight on the rear foot at a particular spot in the swing.

Ok but I am clearly having trouble getting/understanding any feedback that specifies the instep of the back foot,maybe you can clear this up.....as I said before ,maybe this is not a concern .

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


Posted

@freedrop

At address, weight is 60/40 for her. Probably at the high end for weight forward at address, but doesn't harm anything.

At top of the backswing, weight is now 70/30 right leg. As you can see the weight really focuses near the center and center outside of her right foot. It could be that she feels on the instep of her right foot, but shoes might play a part in how the sensor picks up the data. In general all that matters is that the weight (pressure) builds in the right foot at the top of the swing. Which makes sense because the mass of the body, though doesn't shift to the right as much as some swings, she is very centered. That red line is the center of her head at address. The shoulders and torso (belly) are all on the right side of her midline. So this shifts weight to the right.

A good case of were feel isn't real. For some golfers, they might feel stress in the left leg at this point. The reason being that the left leg gains flex in the backswing. So they feel the left quad muscle contracting more. Especially for someone who isn't use to a more centered turn. So, even though you can teach someone, extend that right leg a bit, and keep it centered, the feel might not be the right side as the numbers show.

Note at impact ,her weight is no 77% on the left. So i went from 70 % right to 77% left, and her head stayed centered. No need to get a huge upper body motion to the right in the backswing.

Also, PGA players have their weight 85-95% on the front leg. So she has some area to improve on as well.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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Posted

At top of the backswing, weight is now 70/30 right leg. As you can see the weight really focuses near the center and center outside of her right foot. It could be that she feels on the instep of her right foot, but shoes might play a part in how the sensor picks up the data. In general all that matters is that the weight (pressure) builds in the right foot at the top of the swing. Which makes sense because the mass of the body, though doesn't shift to the right as much as some swings, she is very centered. That red line is the center of her head at address. The shoulders and torso (belly) are all on the right side of her midline. So this shifts weight to the right.

A good case of were feel isn't real. For some golfers, they might feel stress in the left leg at this point. The reason being that the left leg gains flex in the backswing. So they feel the left quad muscle contracting more. Especially for someone who isn't use to a more centered turn. So, even though you can teach someone, extend that right leg a bit, and keep it centered, the feel might not be the right side as the numbers show.

Matt, the way I see her foot pressure here is that it gets to the outside of her trail foot, and I think it has to do with her foot not being flared. If she flared it out a bit, I imagine the pressure would stay more toward the instep, but with the foot squared like that, there isn't really anywhere for the pressure to go but to roll towards the outside.

It's one of the things I never understood about Hogan's Five Lessons. He advocated a square trail foot to prevent sway, but I always felt it actually promotes it. What are your thoughts?

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted

Matt, the way I see her foot pressure here is that it gets to the outside of her trail foot, and I think it has to do with her foot not being flared. If she flared it out a bit, I imagine the pressure would stay more toward the instep, but with the foot squared like that, there isn't really anywhere for the pressure to go but to roll towards the outside.

It's one of the things I never understood about Hogan's Five Lessons. He advocated a square trail foot to prevent sway, but I always felt it actually promotes it. What are your thoughts?

I can see that as well, I think it is more her shoe though. Her right knee is inside her instep, so the force down her leg is angled to the middle of the heel. I can see the shoe rolling to the outside a bit because it isn't a perfect fit. Though I might be stretching that logic a bit. If the feet were flared then the pressure would probably be more in the right heel cause the foot would be more inline with the leg. When I swing barefoot, i feel the pressure on the instep of my right foot more. Mainly because my ankle and foot adapt to the ground.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted
It's one of the things I never understood about Hogan's Five Lessons. He advocated a square trail foot to prevent sway, but I always felt it actually promotes it. What are your thoughts?

Square trail feet tend to promote a little rolling of the ankle, particularly when the knee moves out a little.

I don't think it's her shoes. Remember you can send force to the outside of your foot with the knee still inside the foot. It will tend to be less so (you can see it more so in Sergio's pictures), but it's possible.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Posted
Ok but I am clearly having trouble getting/understanding any feedback that specifies the instep of the back foot,maybe you can clear this up.....as I said before ,maybe this is not a concern .

Having viewed and simulated-- I don't think about the weight on the instep - from the video the weight is around the big toe of the rear foot at the top, and then goes to the big toe of the front foot ... at the same time, I roll the rear foot along the entire instep (but favored towards the toe), but it's quick -- because as the vid shows, you've got to get on the front foot aggressively.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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Posted

Sergio's weight rolls to the outside of the right foot  almost to the side of the shoe and his right knee moves to the right as well.This is likely why he has such a funky swing.No one would teach this.

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


Posted

Sergio's weight rolls to the outside of the right foot  almost to the side of the shoe and his right knee moves to the right as well.This is likely why he has such a funky swing.No one would teach this.

Here's the thing, you wouldn't teach this. You also wouldn't mess with it in sergio's case because obviously it isn't hurting his swing. This little detail of his swing doesn't matter, so its not worth mentioning.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted

I was watching Pettersen at the Aussie womens open,she is wearing shorts and you can see the leg action perfectly...very interesting.

"There is no reason to listen to me. I am merely voicing my opinion on certain aspects of golf mechanics that I have experimented with along with others I have read about and watched." - freedrop, on himself [Source]

User was banned February 22, 2014 for multiple violations.


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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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