Getting my weight forward.......WHY

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by logman

I know that laggy feeling you're talking about. I know there's plenty of guys on this site wanting to understand that feeling and I found as soon as I started using the HSS grip I could really get the feel of lag. Good luck with your swing, but this site is a very "this is how you swing the golf club".......no exceptions!

Cut the crap.

Originally Posted by logman

I'll refer you to the "my swing" area..........scroll right the way down and you'll see me hitting the ball with a wrist brace on. The wrist brace eliminates nearly all, and I mean ALL movement from the front wrist.

Under that video is another with the brace taken off. You can try to pick the difference if you can.

You, and a whole bunch of guys poo, pooed the whole Kuykendall method for months. I've showed you that I can hit the ball with out using my front wrist.......look at the video.

I've showed you that I can generate enough power to drive the ball 250 meters plus using a 90 degree elbow hinge and a smaller than usual shoulder turn.......and a front wrist that has no impact in the swing at all.(Kuykendall says less than 10% bend is OK).

Maybe you're so embedded in the "right way" you can't or won't see it.

Geez I hope Stoveny doesn't post his grip pictures. This place will go crazy

We've all seen the videos... have you? If you had, you would have seen that you DO use your wrist...

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing gets through, I don't know why we even try.

With all that said, this thread is about weight forward, not wrist cock so let's get back to topic.

[logman]

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

Cut the crap.

We've all seen the videos... have you? If you had, you would have seen that you DO use your wrist...

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing gets through, I don't know why we even try.

With all that said, this thread is about weight forward, not wrist cock so let's get back to topic.

Can you explain the wrist brace video? OK back on topic

[Mr. Desmond]

Hmmm... looked at the video. I guess that swing is effective for you. You have a powerful downswing move. Whether conscious or not, a large percentage of your weight seems forward at impact.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

Under that video is another with the brace taken off. You can try to pick the difference if you can.

Your earlier videos had a lot of wrist movement.

Originally Posted by logman

I've showed you that I can generate enough power to drive the ball 250 meters plus using a 90 degree elbow hinge and a smaller than usual shoulder turn.......and a front wrist that has no impact in the swing at all.(Kuykendall says less than 10% bend is OK).

Where's the video of your five-irons hit in a row from the fairway?

Such drivel, logman.

5SK is not one way, no exceptions. Get real, brick wall.

[logman]

Originally Posted by iacas

Your earlier videos had a lot of wrist movement.

Where's the video of your five-irons hit in a row from the fairway?

Such drivel, logman.

5SK is not one way, no exceptions. Get real, brick wall.

Did you have a look at the wrist brace /non wrist brace video? There's no lead wrist break, is there. I don't know what else to do or say here.

Look I'm not trying to trick anyone or be evasive or anything.

Anyway, what now? a 5 iron video.......OK, I don't carry a 5 iron, I prefer a hybrid. I'll dig out my 5 iron a post a video.

I've got a feeling that it still won't satisfy.

[stoverny]

You are bending the metal brace with your wrist, obviously. :)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by logman

Did you have a look at the wrist brace /non wrist brace video? There's no lead wrist break, is there. I don't know what else to do or say here.

Look I'm not trying to trick anyone or be evasive or anything.

Anyway, what now? a 5 iron video.......OK, I don't carry a 5 iron, I prefer a hybrid. I'll dig out my 5 iron a post a video.

I've got a feeling that it still won't satisfy.

We want to see you make good solid contact with an iron (not a hybrid).  It means you will be taking a divot AFTER the ball, and it in turn means you WILL have your weight forward.

[stoverny]

In terms of shifting weight forward, I think its role in power production is overestimated.  As I mentioned earlier power in a golf swing comes from the rotary motion of the club around the body, not from the shift of weight forward.  That is why when you perform the "feet together" drill you can still hit the ball surprisingly far, not that far off from a standard swing.  The connection of feet to the ground provides the stability for the club to rotate around a fixed point and gain speed, but the active shifting of weight doesn't add all that much extra power.  That is why it would be almost impossible to hit a strong shot while dangling from a harness in midair - you need the opposing force of the ground for stability.  However moving the weight forward is less important than stable rotation around the axis.  Likewise the "iron byron" machine does not shift weight forward when it swings... it moves around a perfectly fixed and stable point.

Using another baseball analogy... imagine a 3rd baseman running in to field a bunt down the 3rd-base line.  He picks it up barehanded and throws underhanded across his body to first while he is falling towards the 3rd-base line.  Obviously he cannot get quite as much power behind his throw as when stepping into it, however he can still get a surprising amount of power on it even if he is falling away from 1st base as he throws.  He uses his arm and wrist levers to "snap" the throw and generate power.  Contrast that with the image of a baseball player who is standing upright and steps into the throw normally, but imagine he does not use any levers in his arm while throwing... his elbow and wrist never break and the throw is done with a straight arm.  He would get almost no force behind the throw even though he is stepping into it with his weight.  The bullwhip-type force of the arm levers provides much more of the power than the weight shift does.

Now that is not to say that doing ALL of the things together (weight shift, use of wrist snap, etc.) won't lead to a stronger throw.  That is why pitchers push off the rubber because their goal is maximum force.  However my point is that the weight shift is less important than many golf instruction seems to stress, in terms of power.

What I think is often overlooked is that the weight shift itself presents a problem for many would-be golfers.  They cannot seem to master it, or at least not consistently. Golf courses are full of players who have spent hundreds or even thousands on lessons, and hours at the range, and yet they still cannot make consistent contact.  And the reason is they cannot get the weight shift down. They lunge forward, they reverse pivot, they fall backwards, they hit half the shots fat.  For these players it would make far more sense to try to find a swing that minimizes the weight shift, and lets them focus on making consistent, solid contact.  Solid contact on the sweet spot of the clubface is far more influential on distance than weight shift.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by stoverny

In terms of shifting weight forward, I think its role in power production is overestimated.  As I mentioned earlier power in a golf swing comes from the rotary motion of the club around the body, not from the shift of weight forward.  That is why when you perform the "feet together" drill you can still hit the ball surprisingly far, not that far off from a standard swing.  The connection of feet to the ground provides the stability for the club to rotate around a fixed point and gain speed, but the active shifting of weight doesn't add all that much extra power.  That is why it would be almost impossible to hit a strong shot while dangling from a harness in midair - you need the opposing force of the ground for stability.  However moving the weight forward is less important than stable rotation around the axis.  Likewise the "iron byron" machine does not shift weight forward when it swings... it moves around a perfectly fixed and stable point.

Using another baseball analogy... imagine a 3rd baseman running in to field a bunt down the 3rd-base line.  He picks it up barehanded and throws underhanded across his body to first while he is falling towards the 3rd-base line.  Obviously he cannot get quite as much power behind his throw as when stepping into it, however he can still get a surprising amount of power on it even if he is falling away from 1st base as he throws.  He uses his arm and wrist levers to "snap" the throw and generate power.  Contrast that with the image of a baseball player who is standing upright and steps into the throw normally, but imagine he does not use any levers in his arm while throwing... his elbow and wrist never break and the throw is done with a straight arm.  He would get almost no force behind the throw even though he is stepping into it with his weight.  The bullwhip-type force of the arm levers provides much more of the power than the weight shift does.

Now that is not to say that doing ALL of the things together (weight shift, use of wrist snap, etc.) won't lead to a stronger throw.  That is why pitchers push off the rubber because their goal is maximum force.  However my point is that the weight shift is less important than many golf instruction seems to stress, in terms of power.

What I think is often overlooked is that the weight shift itself presents a problem for many would-be golfers.  They cannot seem to master it, or at least not consistently. Golf courses are full of players who have spent hundreds or even thousands on lessons, and hours at the range, and yet they still cannot make consistent contact.  And the reason is they cannot get the weight shift down. They lunge forward, they reverse pivot, they fall backwards, they hit half the shots fat.  For these players it would make far more sense to try to find a swing that minimizes the weight shift, and lets them focus on making consistent, solid contact.  Solid contact on the sweet spot of the clubface is far more influential on distance than weight shift.

Your arguing against a weight SHIFT.  That's all fine and dandy ... I've tried swinging with all of my weight forward from the start of the swing and through earlier this summer with some shockingly good results.**  (Or at least what felt like all of my weight forward ... who knows what it actually was)  The only key (see what I did there?) we're focusing on here is that the weight is FORWARD at impact.  Weight SHIFT and weight FORWARD are two very different things.  Weight FORWARD (at impact) is the key.

Logman seems to have the impression that he can be falling out of the shot with all of his weight back and still hit it good.  That's not possible (with an iron at least, hence Erik's request).  I also find it a bit ironic how you explain that you need levers (including the wrists) to generate power, and at the same time "agree" with logman that he has a powerful "no wrist" swing.  Let me ask you ... if his weight is back and his wrists don't break, how would he acquire any power at all?

** Too be clear, these results are nowhere near as good as I'm getting now with what I believe is more of a balanced weight at address, so I definitely have a weight shift going on now.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

... I've tried swinging with all of my weight forward from the start of the swing and through earlier this summer with some shockingly good results.**

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** Too be clear, these results are nowhere near as good as I'm getting now with what I believe is more of a balanced weight at address, so I definitely have a weight shift going on now.

This is exactly my experience over this winter.  I taught myself to start and stay forward, my head didn't move at all.  It was a response to just try and connect more consistently.  it worked.  (if you call taking full swings like pitching to 'work', sure, I didn't fat or thin as much)

Now that I have had some coaching on how to transfer better, I'm more consistent, I don't have to press my grip nearly as much at setup, I'm adding a TON of distance and can get the ball up better.  What I got from it was, I'm striking the ball at the correct angle, the transfer got rid of a ton of inhibition in rotation (night vs day here on both the backswing and followthrough), I'm taking a divot where I should be taking one, etc etc etc.  I'm hitting straighter (large indoor range is how I know), but that might be just practice, or it might be a more consistent rotation as a result of the change...

Yes, you can play pretty good static, BUT, if you can and do the shift work correctly, you can play vastly better, IMO.  yesterday, I reviewed my lesson videos of before vs after, it's more dramatic than I had thought.

I can't wait for the snow to be gone.  At the worst, all the practice will be a benefit, but I think this tuned up swing is so much better as well.  We'll see......I'll post before vs after for the yards per club, as well as dispersion.

[stoverny]

Logman as far as i can tell replaces the wrist "snap" with a tricept snap. Just a different way to generate speed. Still effective and does not require a lot of weight forward.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Let me ask you ... if his weight is back and his wrists don't break, how would he acquire any power at all?

Scream, "JESUS CHRIST!" just before impact.  For slightly better results, you can also try yelling, "CHUCK NORRIS COMPELS YOU!"  Your mileage may vary.  Sometimes making solid contact can be tougher when yelling the latter.

[jamo]

Scream, "JESUS CHRIST!" just before impact.  For slightly better results, you can also try yelling, "CHUCK NORRIS COMPELS YOU!"  Your mileage may vary.  Sometimes making solid contact can be tougher when yelling the latter.

If we're yelling anything for additional power, it has to be "POOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!" Everyone knows that.

[stoverny]

I have certainly screamed "Jesus Christ!" although it usually comes after impact as I watch my ball head into the trees... maybe I need to yell it sooner

[Mr. Desmond]

When an issue goes 7 pages regarding an aspect of the swing, it's a problem with golfers.

Some say your weight responds to the arms, Others says it is a move you actively make.

It seems that whatever way you think about it, it's a move that must be made (either "passively" (as a response to another action) or actively).

[jclark]

Rotation and leverage is what creates power in the swing. You can use one or the other and do ok but will never meet your full potential. Blending them both would be best. When I first started I used rotation, was a hip spinner and had lots of problems. Now I am focusing on leverage, lag, and have been hitting it WAY further and MORE CONSISTANT. Obviously I have toned down my rotation and incorporated more leverage and that was all it took to take me to the next level. Rotation alone in your swing won't take you very far. Trust me. I understand that you feel that your swing works best for you because of your skill level, but your swing model is not the best model. Your skills are not the best either (speculating from information gathered from previous posts) so to improve you need a better swing and better understanding of how the golf swing works. I was there, had my crap swing that I tweaked to work for me. I tweaked it to work because I sucked. I then realized I need to improve so I could have the best possible swing. I'm not saying you suck but that you shouldn't be happy with your swing and should strive for improvement. I have been there and now I'm here and my eyes have been opened with proper technique. There is obviously negotiable aspect of every swing but there are NON-NEGOTIABLE aspects that you have to have no matter what for the most efficient swing. I don't know about you but I strive for the most efficient swing, not one that works 50% of the time.....off my soap box now. :)

[logman]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Your arguing against a weight SHIFT.  That's all fine and dandy ... I've tried swinging with all of my weight forward from the start of the swing and through earlier this summer with some shockingly good results.**  (Or at least what felt like all of my weight forward ... who knows what it actually was)  The only key (see what I did there?) we're focusing on here is that the weight is FORWARD at impact.  Weight SHIFT and weight FORWARD are two very different things.  Weight FORWARD (at impact) is the key.

Logman seems to have the impression that he can be falling out of the shot with all of his weight back and still hit it good.  That's not possible (with an iron at least, hence Erik's request).  I also find it a bit ironic how you explain that you need levers (including the wrists) to generate power, and at the same time "agree" with logman that he has a powerful "no wrist" swing.  Let me ask you ... if his weight is back and his wrists don't break, how would he acquire any power at all?

** Too be clear, these results are nowhere near as good as I'm getting now with what I believe is more of a balanced weight at address, so I definitely have a weight shift going on now.

To be clear, I'm not arguing against weight shift, I'm arguing against it as a non negociable in the swing. I'm just not convinced that it's the important element that most guys on here seem to.

I don't want to" fall out of the shot", But I know that if I can be anywhere from 50/50 to 70/30 then "weight forward" doesn't get in the way of my swing. I also know that if I go way forward in my transfer then that introduces a whole new can of worms and there all bad.

"let me ask you....if his weight is back and his wrists don't break, how would he acquire any power at all"

I think this is the same thing Erik has been saying for months about power in the swing.....I think he said I couldn't hit out of my own shadow. ......Flying it 250 meters is a big shadow

The point is I'm using levers. I'm replacing the straight arm /cocked wrist lever with a lever that consists of a long lever(the club and the forearm locked together, the hing(the elbow) and the power source , the upper arm and triceps.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by logman

To be clear, I'm not arguing against weight shift, I'm arguing against it as a non negociable in the swing. I'm just not convinced that it's the important element that most guys on here seem to.

I was speaking directly to the post Stoverny made.  Regardless, it sounds like you're going out of your way to misunderstand.  You can hit the ball fine without a weight SHIFT.  But you CANNOT hit it fine without your weight forward.  You can pre-set all of your weight forward, stack and tilt style (or at least feel that way) and hit the ball just fine.  Heck, Erik recommends a really good drill where you preset your weight way forward as you'd want it to be at impact.  You can play pretty decent golf like that if you so desired.

What you cannot do is play good golf with all of your weight back.

Originally Posted by logman

"let me ask you....if his weight is back and his wrists don't break, how would he acquire any power at all"

I think this is the same thing Erik has been saying for months about power in the swing.....I think he said I couldn't hit out of my own shadow. ......Flying it 250 meters is a big shadow

The point is I'm using levers. I'm replacing the straight arm /cocked wrist lever with a lever that consists of a long lever(the club and the forearm locked together, the hing(the elbow) and the power source , the upper arm and triceps.

Your deductive reasoning skill are off.

Point 1:  Erik said you can't hit it out of your own shadow if you don't use your wrists at all.  (Not really Erik, but moreso physics that says that, but whatever)

Point 2: You can hit the ball 250 meters.

Your conclusion:  Erik (and physics) is wrong.

Reasonable persons conclusion:  You USE your flippin' wrists in your swing!

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ― Neil deGrasse Tyson .