2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[Rick Martin]

Kid just birdied #13. Beautiful chip from backside of the green. Lots of dialogue between Guan and his caddy - moreso than you usually hear between caddy/golfer imo. Kid kind of overruled caddy's recommendation and played a shot to his own liking....

Kid leads the field in putting, per Masters.com

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by Yukari

Sandy Lyle's putter face appears to be a size of a pancake!

yep - ugly putter

would like to hear Sandy's assessment of the Guan - his playing partner today

[Lloyd Braun]

Originally Posted by Yukari

Tiger knew he was 2 yards back, but he also believed it was within the rules.

Originally Posted by iacas

Yup.

But where in the rules does it say two yards doesn't qualify to be "as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played?"  There is no measurable guideline or parameter that clarifies what is too far.  If anything, I question the assessment of the two stroke penalty to begin with, not to be the contrarian around here.

[Rick Martin]

Jealous ex-husband of Lindsey Vonn tweeted about TW's 15th hole incident: insinuated that it was he who called in the penalty to Augusta National.

------------------

Thomas Vonn @ ThomasVonn

No problem Masters tournament happy to call in and help. You always have to keep an eye on those cheaters ;)

[iacas]

This is all very simple and straightforward if you're capable of thinking through it.

Originally Posted by dave67az

Really.  So in the Stacy Lewis case, why did they contact Stacy and ASK her and Travis whether they had violated the rule?  Consistent application of standards is pretty important.

Because they felt the need to, because they wanted the player to add the strokes to the scorecard and not turn in the wrong score.

Originally Posted by dave67az

Now that's poppycock.  I'm sorry but if a player's statements/intent would be enough to change the committee's decision on a ruling, then they owe it to everyone involved to get that statement BEFORE they make a freaking decision, Just like the Stacy Lewis case.

Nope. Two different scenarios.

In Stacy's case they were going to rule that there was a violation and sought her to both explain it to her and to perhaps see if there was any reason (even though there wasn't likely to be one) why they should not penalize her. In Tiger's case they had the information they needed to render a decision, they didn't need to explain anything to him.

Originally Posted by dave67az

Anyone looking at the tape can see Tiger didn't drop it "as nearly as possible" to his previous spot because the divot is plainly seen.

Clearly, given their initial ruling that he was fine, the Rules Committee disagrees with you.

Sorry, but if that's the foundation you use to make up a substantial part of your argument, you lose.

Originally Posted by dave67az

Yes, they had already ruled.  But they should NOT have ruled until they got all the information.

They felt they had it all.

Carried to an extreme, they should have asked Tiger about his other 70 shots. "Did the ball move when you addressed it?" "Did you tee off behind the markers?" "Did you intend to slightly straddle the line of that putt when you tapped in on the second hole?" After all, they've basically ruled on those things, but without "all" the information that's available to them.

Sounds great. Let's just have a one-hour interview with each contestant following their rounds to ensure they didn't violate any rules.

They felt they had all of the information available to them. They watched the tape. Nobody there had said anything.

Originally Posted by dave67az

You make it sound like the information they got later wasn't available earlier.

It wasn't. Tiger hadn't given the interview.

But hey, maybe you really do want the one-hour post-round interviews.

The Lewis and the Woods scenarios are different. In one the initial ruling was to penalize, in the other it was not.

Originally Posted by dave67az

You say that in the Lewis case "the committee could see all they needed on the tape" as though we're supposed to pretend they didn't approach her and ASK her whether she and Travis were testing the surface.

Dave, I don't know how to make this more clear for you: they were going to penalize her, and talking to her was both to inform her of the penalty and also to give her the opportunity to find some valid reason why she wouldn't be penalized.

For example, what if she said "yeah, he tested the condition, but when I got in there I saw it wasn't my ball, and mine was actually in the rough just past the bunker." They'd obviously not penalize her for that.

They didn't interview her to "gain more facts" or anything. They told her she'd be penalized and asked if she had any outs. She had none, and accepted the penalty they'd already decided upon.

I know you really like to get into these things, and keep going and going and going and going and going, but that's the answer, it's what any actual Rules Official would tell you, and so that's that. The end.

[Rick Martin]

Pretty good Masters going on. Eventually you'll have to move on from the ruling and actually pay attention to what's going on w/ the leaderboard.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

Pretty good Masters going on. Eventually you'll have to move on from the ruling and actually pay attention to what's going on w/ the leaderboard.

Nothing's going on with the leaderboard yet. Nobody high enough up has teed off yet. :-D

[Yukari]

That's funny.  I thought he cheated on Lindsey, that is why she left him.

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

Jealous ex-husband of Lindsey Vonn tweeted about TW's 15th hole incident: insinuated that it was he who called in the penalty to Augusta National.

------------------

Thomas Vonn @ThomasVonn

No problem Masters tournament happy to call in and help. You always have to keep an eye on those cheaters ;)

[Rick Martin]

Damn.....Keegan is -3 for the day...was hoping the kid Guan would embarrass Keegan by scoring better.

Several -3 rounds out there.....BTW, bad weather ahead for the Augusta area this afternoon likely when the leaders are making the turn (5 pm).

http://www.findlocalweather.com/radar/ga/augusta+national+golf+club.html

[rehmwa]

Well, darn it Freddie.  I wanted to see Couples in the hunt.  Still time.

I wonder what the discussion would be if Tiger would have given that interview a week from now...a month....next year.....

Funny bit of fate either way, slightly LESS perfect shot would have missed the pin by an inch or so and he'd be up an extra (??  6?) strokes right now....

Can someone clarify the options again>

1 - defined drop area for that hole

2 - outbound anywhere from the line formed by the flag and where the ball got wet

3 - re-hit from original shot (how is that drop area defined?)

#3 is still not super clear to me - ((but I'm pretty much clear it doesn't contain a space 2 yards short of where one thinks the first hit was played ))

lessons learned - DON'T hit the pin

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

Well, darn it Freddie.  I wanted to see Couples in the hunt.  Still time.

I wonder what the discussion would be if Tiger would have given that interview a week from now...a month....next year.....

Funny bit of fate either way, slightly LESS perfect shot would have missed the pin by an inch or so and he'd be up an extra (??  6?) strokes right now....

Can someone clarify the options again>

1 - defined drop area for that hole

2 - outbound anywhere from the line formed by the flag and where the ball got wet

3 - re-hit from original shot (how is that drop area defined?)

#3 is still not super clear to me - ((but I'm pretty much clear it doesn't contain a space 2 yards short of where one thinks the first hit was played   ))

lessons learned - DON'T hit the pin

#4 hit the ball whilst in the hazard, don't ground club ---needed snorkel though

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

#4 hit the ball whilst in the hazard, don't ground club ---needed snorkel though

crap - I forgot the obvious

Play it where it lies....

nicely done

[Rick Martin]

Just saw a very interesting story on GC today done by Rich Lerner. Story covered Charles Coody's 1971 win (as told by Coody's twin grandsons). Very well done - they showed an old video of Jack trying to hit out of a hazard (looked like #12 - mud flying everywhere including on Jacks' foreharms and clothes....and the ball barely got out. Looked like us hackers).  Didn't know Jack hit bad shots at Augusta.  Anyway, Jack and Johnny Miller went on to lose to Charles Coody. Great story - hope everyone gets to see it.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

I believe you're right. Part of appeasing the Asian fans - probably are a few Augusta National members from that part of the world as well.

And I don't see a problem with that.

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by onephenom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

I believe you're right. Part of appeasing the Asian fans - probably are a few Augusta National members from that part of the world as well.

And I don't see a problem with that.

I do - dilutes the field for a tournament that claims that the winner is a champion and goes down in golf history as a great player..to be a champion, you have to have the absolute best in the field. There are several PGA players not playing Augusta this weekend that could be more competitive than Sandy Lyle and Craig Stadler.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

I do - dilutes the field for a tournament that claims that the winner is a champion and goes down in golf history as a great player..to be a champion, you have to have the absolute best in the field. There are several PGA players not playing Augusta this weekend that could be more competitive than Sandy Lyle and Craig Stadler.

So past champions shouldn't be allowed to play?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

I do - dilutes the field for a tournament that claims that the winner is a champion and goes down in golf history as a great player..to be a champion, you have to have the absolute best in the field. There are several PGA players not playing Augusta this weekend that could be more competitive than Sandy Lyle and Craig Stadler.

The strongest possible field is Tiger Woods alone. Or maybe just the top ten in the world.

Screw Charlie Beljan. The Masters does a good amount to promote the game internationally, and the Asian players and Thai players and amateur winners and so on are not taking spaces away from anyone else. Including Charlie Beljan.

[clarkeycats]

After missing out to Charl in '11 and falling apart at the British Open last year, I'd like to see Scott go on and win this one.