Still having a bitch of a time getting my club face closed at impact

[Zeph]

Do you roll the arms and open the club a lot on the backswing?

[mark83]

First check your setup. Remember that with the driver you want it teed up in line with your front foot or a little forward of it. You also want to make sure youve got some tilt to the right. Obviously you can play it further back but that gives less time for the face to close. Second make sure you have a slightly stronger grip. Now remember that but we are going to put the club down and go over how the arms work. On the back swing your forearms will roll open. That roll just happens becauae the right elbow bends. For me I wasn' letting it happen and I was keeping the face shut which made me yank everything left. To see how it happens just put your palms together like your are setting up to swing and do your backswing with your palms together. You'll notice your arms naturally roll open as your right elbow bends. When you come down you have to undo that roll open. That occurs when the right arm straightens back out. However you can, as I was doing, release all that power by straightening your right arm with the face pointing in several directions. To get the clubface control grab a tennis racket.

[mark83]

With the tennis racket grip it just as you would with your golf club. Take your backswing  remembering to let the forearms fan open then as you come down keep the fanned open arms and straighten your right elbow at impact. What you should see is that your tennis racket face is pointing way out to right field. You've fully released the club but your trying to hit a slice around a tree :)

To correct it do the same drill but when you come in to impact straighten that right arm but use the forearms to square the club face so that the racket face is pointing towards your target and not out to the right. Remember that we aren't manipulating the club/racket face with our hands or wrists. Those stay supple during the swing. We are squaring the face back up with the straightening of the right elbow and letting the forearms get back to square instead of fanned open like they were on the back swing. I'll put up a video of the drills that I've been working on.

[mark83]

Here's the hands together and tennis racket/release drills. With the racket I did release wtih open face, square face, and draw face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLeQyPqP5OE

[SoundandFury]

Awesome post Mark, thanks. Now I gotta go back to the range... One thing I tinkered around with this morning was shaft lean at address with driver vs. irons. Normally I line up with roughly the same forward shaft lean with all my clubs (about 3-4 inches left of my zipper). What I noticed however is that with an iron the face will be closed if you don't have forward lean at address, but with the driver it looks like the face is actually open if you have forward lean at address. I started lining up with the driver shaft pointed straight at my belt buckle or even a little right, and I actually saw decent results. Didn't really get a chance to fully explore bc the only rubber tee I had was way to high, but I felt like I was on to something. Anyone know anything about this?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by mark83

Here's the hands together and tennis racket/release drills. With the racket I did release wtih open face, square face, and draw face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLeQyPqP5OE

Oy Vey, please go to this article for some truth. http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

The way the face rotates or doesn't rotate has nothing to do with curving the ball.  Most draws played by expert players have a face aiming right at impact, and aimed left for a fade.  Face controls start line.

[EverythingGolf]

What mark is showing with the racket drills will only produce a push slice and a pull hook. To hit a fade the face is closed to the target (open to the path) and the path is to the left, to hit a draw the face is open to the target (closed to the path) and the path is to the right.

[boonebgolow]

I have this same problem from time to time. a month ago i was hitting 65% of fairways. Now I'm down to 48% and the miss is right with the occasional hook because of trying to correct with wrist.  After much frustration and time on the range i discovered i had inched closer to the ball during set up, so i took a small step away from the ball and drilled it.  You could try it and see what happens.  I'm playing my first round today after this new discovery, so ill see how it goes.  Hope this, or some other tip helps. Good luck.

[boogielicious]

OP,

I am working on the exact same issue.  I have been working with Mike and Erik on this.  My swing path is in-to-out and if I don't close the face I get a push fade (start right-fade right).  I have worked successfully on getting my right elbow in the correct pitch elbow position and weight forward.  This has led to me under-rotating my forearms.  They have me working on a couple of things.

1. First, at set up, set the face of the club with the shaft at the impact position (handle more forward). When you return to your stance, the face will be a little closed.  You can then strengthen your grip by rotating the shaft clockwise (11 to 1 for example).
2. Flattening your wrist during the backswing so at A4 (top of backswing), it is flat or bowed (a la Dustin Johnson).  My wrist has been a bit cupped at the top, which opens the face.
3. Motorcycling - this motion is similar to revving a throttle on a motorcycle.  The intent is for your left hand knuckles to be facing the ground at A6 (shaft parallel to the ground on the downswing). A little clockwise rotation starting at A4 to A6 will accomplish this.  Don't over do this part.  Practice with slow motion from A4 to A6.

My observations so far are that doing 1 and 2 with the driver straightens things out considerably. I get a baby fade to a 10 yard fade with nice height.  This is a shot I can play and I feel it is easy to control.  With irons (6 - PW), I get great contact but a slight draw instead.

#3 is a little harder to control, so I need more practice on this one.  When I do 3, I set up with the handle more forward.  If I execute correctly, I get a high baby push draw.  This miss is a over-draw if you don't get your weight forward enough.

Try it out.

[SoundandFury]

This something of a duplicate post, but it seems different ppl are reading the two threads. Good advice, thanks! However I took a video of my swing and the problem is somewhat different than just an open club face. My path is in to out, however it's very clear I'm holding off. If I was wearing a watch on my left wrist the face would be pointing to the sky well past impact, and my left arm is chicken winging. Thus, the open face seems to be a symptom (that ultimately causes the right/right miss). I know the release is supposed to happen naturally, but for me it's not. I don't think I'm stalling my pivot. This is getting pretty frustrating because while I can play this somewhat (shot 78, 79 last week), it's killing my consistency and keeping me from regularly being in the low 80s high 70s.

[EverythingGolf]

Do you have a video of your swing you can post here.

[SoundandFury]

Here you go. This is from a couple months ago.  My ballstriking has improved significantly since this, but the chicken wing/held open face is the same.

This one is from this morning.

[EverythingGolf]

The videos are not playing.

[SoundandFury]

Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

The videos are not playing.

Sorry, let's try links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mVm6OCSsiw

again, the above link is from several months ago, ballstriking has improved significantly since this, but chicken wing appears to be the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFba4kell_s

this is current.  i see some other issues here, but really just looking to fix the chicken winging/resulting slice.

[onephenom]

I think the club release is automatic. The best way imo is to hinge the club by not even trying, just let it hinge when you finish the back swing, should make it a lot easier to bring it square to the target line

[mchepp]

I spent about 2 years fighting the push slice. Almost quit. This lead me to learn the ball flight laws but that confused me more. I knew my face was open because the ball started right, but that meant my path was out to in? I bought a camera, videoed my swing, and I was definitely not coming over the top. I tried to swing more in to out, that that only made the problem worse. What I learned from Dave at Golf Evolution is that a golfer can tip out. This means that I was on plane for the first part of the downswing but from about A6 to A7 the clubhead gets out and causes the clubhead to path to be out to in. I can't tell from your video, but if you think you are not coming over the top, my guess is you are tipping out.

[EverythingGolf]

The second video you have a reverse pivot and that can cause you to swing OTT. You also loose your balance on the follow through. The chicken wing is not as bad as the first video but you need to work on that also. Can you get a DTL and a FO with you entire body in the video.

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by mchepp

I spent about 2 years fighting the push slice. Almost quit. This lead me to learn the ball flight laws but that confused me more. I knew my face was open because the ball started right, but that meant my path was out to in? I bought a camera, videoed my swing, and I was definitely not coming over the top. I tried to swing more in to out, that that only made the problem worse.

What I learned from Dave at Golf Evolution is that a golfer can tip out. This means that I was on plane for the first part of the downswing but from about A6 to A7 the clubhead gets out and causes the clubhead to path to be out to in.

I can't tell from your video, but if you think you are not coming over the top, my guess is you are tipping out.

+1

I am fairly certain I was doing this as well.  When I looked at video of my swing (not the greatest quality) it certainly did not look like I was coming out to in.  What helped was to put a piece of foam just outside of the intended in to out path and make sure I did not hit it.  When I found how hard this was to do, I realized that I had not been swinging in to out like I had previously thought.

To the OP, I would try something like this to make certain your path is in to out.