DQ Brandel Chamblee from the Golf Channel

[Dave2512]

They didn't take him off the desk. But if he's the gentleman he attempts portray himself as he put himself in time out to regain his composure. His points, though valid, got lost in his emotions.

[AmazingWhacker]

Well, if he had any integrity at all, he would DQ himself, lol

[eich41]

Originally Posted by club ho

As I said before the committee has ruled. The penalty two strokes. Your hatred of TW is what is showing. Not enough blood for you apparently. As I understand it just listening to PGA radio Tiger was told walking up the 18th hole that his drop was fine. This is the problem with the hyper media and golf. Golf is the only sport that allows rulings on plays to be reversed after the game is completed based on couch potato referees like yourself. Just out of curiosity how many times did Jack Nicklaus make an errand drop similar to TW during his majors during the 60's,70's or 80's? Two ,three ,six?  Given the limited TV coverage we will never know. As  golf purest we must abide by the ruling of the golf committee at Augusta as TW has. I believe he has an argument for no penalty given what he was told while walking up the 18th fairway yesterday.  Your bullying comment suggesting I have a romantic attachment to TW shows what a bigoted fellow you are.

Really a bigot?  LOL.

And your argument is inferring that Jack Nicklaus took several illegal drops in his major wins to gain an advantage?

It's not about a hatred for Tiger, it's about respecting the rules of golf which have been tarnished today.

Would you be calling Chamblee and Faldo douche bags if they were arguing over whether Kevin Na should WD because of an incident like this?  You're mad because it's Tiger.

[club ho]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

Chamblee going to town on Tiger started to sound like Nancy Grace verbally assaulting Tot-Mom, didn't he?

Great analogy. Chamblee clearly had an agenda to smear Tiger. His head couldn't stop shaking at one point. I have to agree with a previous poster regarding the possibility that Tiger visited Brandles ex.  LOL! Those golf analyst definitely walk a tight rope trying to make sensational TV without losing there integrity. It is clear Chamblee has lost his grip on the TW issue. Frank Nobilo was brought in to bring some reason to the issue.

[Rick Martin]

I don't know about that (Nobilo). I think they have a routine change of shift - Notah joined the set probably as planned and Chamblee who was on the earliest was replaced - thtat's normally how they do it, even when there's no controversy.  It isn't as if Chamblee is a lone wolf here - the greeat Sir NIck fully agrees with him. Norman too? Duval said a DQ was in order as well.

[club ho]

Originally Posted by eich41

Really a bigot?  LOL.

And your argument is inferring that Jack Nicklaus took several illegal drops in his major wins to gain an advantage?

It's not about a hatred for Tiger, it's about respecting the rules of golf which have been tarnished today.

Would you be calling Chamblee and Faldo douche bags if they were arguing over whether Kevin Na should WD because of an incident like this?  You're mad because it's Tiger.

Eich41: Easy Timmy I never called anyone a douche bag (Different blogger) nor did I say said Jack did or did not make errant drops (not as you state illegal drops). I said we just do not have the mega video coverage that we have today that over scrutinizes today players. Lets just assume Jack Nicklaus back in the 60's made the same drop that Tiger did and a rules official walking up the 18th hole said he was fine with his drop and the incident was covered on camera. Jack would be given a bogie on the hole and would be in the club house at minus 3.  The ruling committee has reviewed the whole episode and the ruling body concurs with the punishment. Your mad because you didn't get your pound of flesh out of Tiger.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by club ho

Eich41: Easy Timmy I never called anyone a douche bag (Different blogger) nor did I say said Jack did or did not make errant drops (not as you state illegal drops). I said we just do not have the mega video coverage that we have today that over scrutinizes today players. Lets just assume Jack Nicklaus back in the 60's made the same drop that Tiger did and a rules official walking up the 18th hole said he was fine with his drop and the incident was covered on camera. Jack would be given a bogie on the hole and would be in the club house at minus 3.  The ruling committee has reviewed the whole episode and the ruling body concurs with the punishment. Your made because you didn't get your pound of flesh out of Tiger.

Tiger was never told that his drop was okay by any rules official prior to his signing of the card.  The presser with the rules committee was just on GC.  The drop never was discussed or brought up by Tiger prior to his signing of the card.  Only once he made his comment in the interview was it reviewed again.  That means that Tiger signed an illegal card and should be disqualified.  If he had brought it up and been told by a rules official or member of the committee that there was no infraction, then the two stroke penalty would be correct.

However, the president of the rules committee was just on and stated that it was never discussed with Tiger prior to signing.  Where ever you got your info about him being told on the 18th hole is wrong.  At the end of the day it's the PLAYERS responsibility to verify his card and any questions about his scoring prior to signing his card.  Not a viewers, not the rules committee, not his caddy's, but the players.  I have no axe to grind with Tiger, but he should be DQ'd based on the facts that we now know.

[Oh No L-drik]

Really? I mean really? All Chamblee does is state what everybody else is afraid to say. Eldrick signed a score card that did not reflect his score...forget everything else...that is what happened...its the Holy Grail of Golf...or use to be.  The problem with members of Team Tiger is it cannot stand ONE IOTA of criticism. It LOVES to bash actual good guys like Phil, Rickie, Hunter, Bubba and Nick but when their Lord and Master Eldrick is questioned in anyway then Team Tiger responses include bigot and racist.

The fact everybody misses is Tiger's own arrogance caused this...he was BRAGGING to the media how all he had to do was (paraphrasing) "take two of yards off his next shot so I dropped it couple of yards behind the spot"...how dumb is this guy?  He admitted to breaking the rule thus, quoting Chamblee, he gained a competitive advantage...PERIOD. To assume Eldrick does not know the rule is absurd. He and all PGA Players cannot afford not to know all the rules. Officials are not on the course to TEACH the PGA members, they are their to clarify and only get involved when requested.

Like I have said...it ain't about Eldrick, it's about the GAME...at least I USE to say that, not anymore. W

[club ho]

Originally Posted by Oh No L-drik

Really? I mean really? All Chamblee does is state what everybody else is afraid to say. Eldrick signed a score card that did not reflect his score...forget everything else...that is what happened...its the Holy Grail of Golf...or use to be.  The problem with members of Team Tiger is it cannot stand ONE IOTA of criticism. It LOVES to bash actual good guys like Phil, Rickie, Hunter, Bubba and Nick but when their Lord and Master Eldrick is questioned in anyway then Team Tiger responses include bigot and racist.

The fact everybody misses is Tiger's own arrogance caused this...he was BRAGGING to the media how all he had to do was (paraphrasing) "take two of yards off his next shot so I dropped it couple of yards behind the spot"...how dumb is this guy?  He admitted to breaking the rule thus, quoting Chamblee, he gained a competitive advantage...PERIOD. To assume Eldrick does not know the rule is absurd. He and all PGA Players cannot afford not to know all the rules. Officials are not on the course to TEACH the PGA members, they are their to clarify and only get involved when requested.

Like I have said...it ain't about Eldrick, it's about the GAME...at least I USE to say that, not anymore. W

Spoken like a man filled with road rage!

[club ho]

Originally Posted by eich41

Tiger was never told that his drop was okay by any rules official prior to his signing of the card.  The presser with the rules committee was just on GC.  The drop never was discussed or brought up by Tiger prior to his signing of the card.  Only once he made his comment in the interview was it reviewed again.  That means that Tiger signed an illegal card and should be disqualified.  If he had brought it up and been told by a rules official or member of the committee that there was no infraction, then the two stroke penalty would be correct.

However, the president of the rules committee was just on and stated that it was never discussed with Tiger prior to signing.  Where ever you got your info about him being told on the 18th hole is wrong.  At the end of the day it's the PLAYERS responsibility to verify his card and any questions about his scoring prior to signing his card.  Not a viewers, not the rules committee, not his caddy's, but the players.  I have no axe to grind with Tiger, but he should be DQ'd based on the facts that we now know.

Heard it this morning on the GC. I just saw the same rules committee announcement and heard it differently then you did. Why are you having difficulty accepting what was clearly a very well thought out ruling by the masters golf committee.

[dv7834]

Originally Posted by club ho

Spoken like a man filled with road rage!

When the argument is lost, attack the poster.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by eich41

Tiger was never told that his drop was okay by any rules official prior to his signing of the card.  The presser with the rules committee was just on GC.  The drop never was discussed or brought up by Tiger prior to his signing of the card.  Only once he made his comment in the interview was it reviewed again.  That means that Tiger signed an illegal card and should be disqualified.  If he had brought it up and been told by a rules official or member of the committee that there was no infraction, then the two stroke penalty would be correct.

However, the president of the rules committee was just on and stated that it was never discussed with Tiger prior to signing.  Where ever you got your info about him being told on the 18th hole is wrong.  At the end of the day it's the PLAYERS responsibility to verify his card and any questions about his scoring prior to signing his card.  Not a viewers, not the rules committee, not his caddy's, but the players.  I have no axe to grind with Tiger, but he should be DQ'd based on the facts that we now know.

I am not sure to follow your logic. Why would there be a need to tell player that there was no infraction before signing the card? And of course it is players responsibility to verify the card etc, but if player thinks there is nothing wrong, then what would he actually verify?

To my understanding the committee had reviewed his drop before him singing the card,  and decided nothing was wrong, so no need to tell player. After signing the card the situation was reviewed again and it was noticed that the original ruling was wrong. Now they had a possible DQ on their hand, but that would be unfair as they could have told it to TW before he signed the card, had they noticed it earlier. Now they decided to impose the two shot penalty as per rule.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by club ho

Heard it this morning on the GC. I just saw the same rules committee announcement and heard it differently then you did. Why are you having difficulty accepting what was clearly a very well thought out ruling by the masters golf committee.

The rules committee chair clearly stated that it was NOT discussed with Tiger prior to him signing his card.  They did regret not bringing it up to him however.  However, it's the onus of the player to ensure they sign a correct card, not the committee.  As I said earlier, had he asked for a ruling prior to signing and they said, "We reviewed it and you're okay" then the two stroke penalty would be correct.  However they were very clear in that presser that this never happened, and that your information of him being told by the committee that he was fine while playing 18 also never happened.  Therefore he signed an incorrect scorecard and should be DQ'd, just like many have before.  Rule 33-7 is for infractions that couldn't have been reasonably discovered prior to signing a scorecard.  That's not the case here, as he egregiously violated a rule (one of the most common and basic rules for that matter) to gain an advantage.  The committee dropped the ball by not discussing it with him, but at the end of the day it's not their responsibility anyways, it's Tiger's and he failed to ensure the accuracy of his scorecard and therefore, by rule, should be DQ'd.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by luu5

I am not sure to follow your logic. Why would there be a need to tell player that there was no infraction before signing the card? And of course it is players responsibility to verify the card etc, but if player thinks there is nothing wrong, then what would he actually verify?

To my understanding the committee had reviewed his drop before him singing the card,  and decided nothing was wrong, so no need to tell player. After signing the card the situation was reviewed again and it was noticed that the original ruling was wrong. Now they had a possible DQ on their hand, but that would be unfair as they could have told it to TW before he signed the card, had they noticed it earlier. Now they decided to impose the two shot penalty as per rule.

The logic is that this happens ALL THE TIME ON TOUR.  There have been 3 DQ's on tour already this year for incorrect scorecards.  Do you think those player's intentionally signed incorrect scorecards? Of course not, they just made a mistake. My logic is that it's Tiger's responsibility to ensure his card is correct before signing it.  If there was any question over the drop, he should have asked for clarification from the officials.  He did not do that.

Hypothetically if he had asked, and was then told he was okay, it would be the committee's fault for giving him an incorrect ruling and the two stroke penalty would be the correct call IMO.  However, since that never happened Tiger simply signed an incorrect score card because he violated a rule and didn't take the penalty.  By rule signing an incorrect scorecard is automatic DQ.  It's happened 3 times on tour this year, why didn't those guys get a free pass?

[luu5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eich41

The rules committee chair clearly stated that it was NOT discussed with Tiger prior to him signing his card.  They did regret not bringing it up to him however.  However, it's the onus of the player to ensure they sign a correct card, not the committee.  As I said earlier, had he asked for a ruling prior to signing and they said, "We reviewed it and you're okay" then the two stroke penalty would be correct.  However they were very clear in that presser that this never happened, and that your information of him being told by the committee that he was fine while playing 18 also never happened.  Therefore he signed an incorrect scorecard and should be DQ'd, just like many have before.

This from committees statement

Quote:

After being prompted by a television viewer, the Rules Committee reviewed a video of the shot while he was playing the 18th hole. At that moment and based on that evidence, the Committee determined he had complied with the Rules.

This means that committee approved TW's play was correct and no need to talk to him before signing the card. Also no need to talk with TW before signing the card.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

LOL...clearly we have a few TW fans in this thread.  Tiger should have been DQed but a new rule allowed the tournament organizers to not DQ him at their discretion.  Had it been anyone else, it would have been a DQ. ...

Are we talking about the rules as they are, or the rules as you wish they were?

This reminds me of a 2010 flap involving Phil Mickelson and the new groove rules. Phil was carrying an old Ping Eye-2 wedge allowed under a lawsuit settlement left over from the 1990s. Fellow pro Scott McCarron said Phil was cheating by using it.

McCarron would have been right only if the rules were rewritten to his dictates, not as they existed in 2010.

Here's a Golf mag commentary on the Eye2 saga:

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/phil-mickelsons-loopy-defense-using-old-wedge-rings-false

Back to the 2013 Masters : The rules officials were alerted while Tiger was still playing. They viewed the footage, and opted not to question him about it before he signed his scorecard.

They applied a rule adjustment made to handle viewer call-in complaints that nobody caught on-course.  Result here = 2-stroke penalty, not DQ. Unless rules official Fred Ridley is lying, the ruling would have been the same as for Joe Smith from Peoria, IL., as for TW.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by Oh No L-drik

Really? I mean really? All Chamblee does is state what everybody else is afraid to say. Eldrick signed a score card that did not reflect his score...forget everything else...that is what happened...its the Holy Grail of Golf...or use to be.  The problem with members of Team Tiger is it cannot stand ONE IOTA of criticism. It LOVES to bash actual good guys like Phil, Rickie, Hunter, Bubba and Nick but when their Lord and Master Eldrick is questioned in anyway then Team Tiger responses include bigot and racist.

The fact everybody misses is Tiger's own arrogance caused this...he was BRAGGING to the media how all he had to do was (paraphrasing) "take two of yards off his next shot so I dropped it couple of yards behind the spot"...how dumb is this guy?  He admitted to breaking the rule thus, quoting Chamblee, he gained a competitive advantage...PERIOD. To assume Eldrick does not know the rule is absurd. He and all PGA Players cannot afford not to know all the rules. Officials are not on the course to TEACH the PGA members, they are their to clarify and only get involved when requested.

Like I have said...it ain't about Eldrick, it's about the GAME...at least I USE to say that, not anymore. W

Nice, making an alt account to bash Tiger, with an obvious anti-Tiger name.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by luu5

This from committees statement

This means that committee approved TW's play was correct and no need to talk to him before signing the card. Also no need to talk with TW before signing the card.

It's the PLAYERS ONUS TO ENSURE THAT THEIR SCORECARD IS CORRECT PRIOR TO SIGNING.  Tiger violated a very basic rule and failed to apply the appropriate penalty shots, and then signed an incorrect scorecard.  It's the player's responsibility to call infractions on themselves and ensure their card is correct before signing.  Tiger did not know that they had reviewed and ruled that there was no infraction at that point.  Therefore it doesn't absolve him from having to verify it was correct.

Even if he didn't intend to break the rule, or didn't know the rule, or didn't realize he broke the rule is all irrelevant.  The only justification would be if Tiger had asked for verification before signing and was incorrectly informed that he didn't break the rule by a rules official.  In that case, he would have tried to verify his score and been incorrectly informed by an official.  However he didn't do that.  Whether he knew the rule, intended to break the rule, etc. doesn't matter.  What matters is that he violated a rule, didn't apply the penalty strokes and signed an incorrect card.  That is automatic DQ.