Drills to improve face angle consistency......?

[rehmwa]

asked in member swings, but thought as a general topic might be better in this forum here....(Did a couple searches also, good info there, but I'm after something more...)

I've had some recent Trackman time (i like it a lot) - numbers look really good and on a good day I can induce fade and draw, etc etc just with minor tweaks to my set up.

I've decided I'm happy with positive swing path (around +2 to 3), and slightly positive face angle (+1.0 or so) - that's a good ball flight.  The other metrics are in a good place and seem consistent enough for now.  So just focusing on these two for now...

I'm nailing the swing path pretty consistently.

When I'm missing, though, it's pretty much getting the face angle to dial in.....too much variation vs what I would find acceptable....

Can anyone recommend drills to tighten my face angle (at impact) control?

as far as full swing mechanics, this is my biggest bang for the buck. (the biggest absolute being short game stuff, but that's a different topic)

[iacas]

There are only two videos at http://purestrike5sk.com/videos.php and one of them is just "theory." The drill that's there is a good one - it makes you aware of your start lines.

Your face angle can be a problem if you have a high rate of closure, which is often a Key #2/#3 issue. Are you certain it's JUST a face-angle issue? Can you post a video showing your full grip?

[mvmac]

Check out this thread for any Key #5 drills http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread

Other than that, you gain better club face control through practice, having a functional grip and understanding why those club face issues are occurring.

[rehmwa]

both are great replies.  I'll update vids soon, will include a closeup of my normal grip too - I can mitigate the occurence of shut downs by weakening my grip a bit......  (Since that bit is not general, I'll update my "My Swing thread" and poke you guys on it - rather than clutter this thread)

I have been very aware of my start lines.

--- On a good day, those are what I use to set up for a fade vs draw (and excited that it works!...).  I set up at address what I tend to hit on contact (i.e., if it looks slightly positive at address then trackman shows me a slight positive hit, etc).  So I'm lucky there - no wierd setup picture required just to make it work.  Just want to minimize the variations and the occasional too-negative club face strike....

---On a bad day, I tend to sporadically close the face too soon, typ - those are the outliers I want to fix.  (So a good idea for me to take a look at how my grip is interacting with the swing....)

will check into that advice and vids asap and get back

thanks for the info - Hope it also helps the others too

This weekend the courses are finally open...

(will research your 5 Keys info - I know this is a site that advocates actively for it, but I'm seeing more and more that you guys are the real thing and it's worth looking into more)

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

(will research your 5 Keys info - I know this is a site that advocates actively for it, but I'm seeing more and more that you guys are the real thing and it's worth looking into more)

Thanks, we only deal with factual data, so that helps

[jsanford9027]

Thanks for the videos these are awesome.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Thanks, we only deal with factual data, so that helps

that's a great statement.  here's a funny story....

We were hitting the trackman Tuesday night and an old golf buddy showed up.  He's really good compared to me (4 HC) and he likes to 'give advice'.  Normally it's really good stuff, so I listen, (though lately I've been making a lot of my own progress and have started to just do my thing and my coach's advice only and no one else....)

Anyway - 'factual data theme' - he's watching me hit and I'm knocking about every third shot left.  My trackman numbers are +2 to +4 club path pretty consistently, and face angle is +2 on the good shots, and ~-6 to -8 on the 'pulls'.  So I'm mumbling about face angle control to myself.  He's trying to tell me I'm hitting outside in.....I point at the trackman display and he states "I don't need to look at that, I see what you are doing even before the display updates....." he then lays down an alignment rod for me to hit inside out.....instead of arguing, I just take the swing and hit a nice straight shot  (club path = +0.4, face angle = 0.4).  He then says "See?  it was your club path."

I'm a nerd, but I found it funny, so did the friend I was sharing the trackman with......

I'm ok with it, he means well and I have my own improvement plan regardless.

silly laws of physics

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

that's a great statement.  here's a funny story....

We were hitting the trackman Tuesday night and an old golf buddy showed up.  He's really good compared to me (4 HC) and he likes to 'give advice'.  Normally it's really good stuff, so I listen, (though lately I've been making a lot of my own progress and have started to just do my thing and my coach's advice only and no one else....)

Anyway - 'factual data theme' - he's watching me hit and I'm knocking about every third shot left.  My trackman numbers are +2 to +4 club path pretty consistently, and face angle is +2 on the good shots, and ~-6 to -8 on the 'pulls'.  So I'm mumbling about face angle control to myself.  He's trying to tell me I'm hitting outside in.....I point at the trackman display and he states "I don't need to look at that, I see what you are doing even before the display updates....."    he then lays down an alignment rod for me to hit inside out.....instead of arguing, I just take the swing and hit a nice straight shot  (club path = +0.4, face angle = 0.4).  He then says "See?  it was your club path."

I'm a nerd, but I found it funny, so did the friend I was sharing the trackman with......

I'm ok with it, he means well and I have my own improvement plan regardless.

silly laws of physics

lol major facepalm.  Yeah that kind of advice can get players in some big trouble.

[iacas]

If I were you I'd have hit a huge push-hook and then shown him THOSE numbers.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by iacas

If I were you I'd have hit a huge push-hook and then shown him THOSE numbers.

aww, that's great.....you assume I can actually do that on purpose........

and remember - there was a refusal to look at the numbers

[iacas]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

aww, that's great.....you assume I can actually do that on purpose........

and remember - there was a refusal to look at the numbers

Eh, I'd have made him look. Wager $100 on his "knowledge."

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Eh, I'd have made him look. Wager $100 on his "knowledge."

I imagine a guy like that would probably then claim that the machine was broken. ;)

Quick question regarding terminology:

Quote:

Anyway - 'factual data theme' - he's watching me hit and I'm knocking about every third shot left.  My trackman numbers are +2 to +4 club path pretty consistently, and face angle is +2 on the good shots, and ~-6 to -8 on the 'pulls'.

Everytime I read this stuff I forget which way is which.  Based on this quote I'm assuming that + is to the right and - is to the left?  Also, I assume that + is up and - is down?  I know it's basic stuff, but I've never sat down and thought about it so I don't have it down 100%

Further, if you are talking numbers with lefties, do side to side numbers flip?  Or is it always +=right and -=left?

Thanks!

[inthecup]

I imagine a guy like that would probably then claim that the machine was broken. ;) Quick question regarding terminology:  Everytime I read this stuff I forget which way is which.  Based on this quote I'm assuming that + is to the right and - is to the left?  Also, I assume that + is up and - is down?  I know it's basic stuff, but I've never sat down and thought about it so I don't have it down 100% Further, if you are talking numbers with lefties, do side to side numbers flip?  Or is it always +=right and -=left? Thanks!

I am with you I have a vector pro and that means a push fade to me. Swing path to the right. Face open? What am I missing?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I imagine a guy like that would probably then claim that the machine was broken. ;)

Quick question regarding terminology:

Everytime I read this stuff I forget which way is which.  Based on this quote I'm assuming that + is to the right and - is to the left?  Also, I assume that + is up and - is down?  I know it's basic stuff, but I've never sat down and thought about it so I don't have it down 100%

Further, if you are talking numbers with lefties, do side to side numbers flip?  Or is it always +=right and -=left?

Thanks!

Outward swing direction (to the right for a RHG), hitting up, face angle aimed right of the target and a spin axis tilted right, would all produce positive numbers.  Negative would be inward swing direction (left for RHG), hitting down, face angle left of target and spin axis titled left.

Negative face to path, assuming center CoG hit, means a draw/hook, positive face to path, fade/slice.

[rehmwa]

Thanks for the drills -

I just couldn't interpret the video with the line art at all.  Will take another try later, maybe after a couple drinks......or six.....

The other drill I did yesterday (hit around the target line) and it really does emphasize the function of the face angle at impact in terms of the start of ball flight.

I think playing around with controlling the left and right part of the launch like that on purpose is a great drill.  Exploring controllability over a range of motion is a great way to teach minimizing variation when you just want to keep it tight at a chosen point.  (Driving is another analogy - if you are very good at changing lanes, then you should be pretty darn good at staying in the center of a single lane.)

I teach a similar thing in skydiving.  When a competitor is trying to learn to be very still during freefall (two dimensionally in the horizontal plan - a much desired skill and harder than most people think), I first teach them how to move about briskly and in control - turning, start stop, sliding left right, moving forward and backward.  Magically, knowing how to move also teaches one how to not move strongly when desired.

So learning to manipulate face angle will also help me learn to control it a chosen point.....

that's the theory anyway and I'm sticking with it