Natural Golf Clubs

[rjb361]

Hello all, I am new to golf. Have only been playing for 6 months now. I bought a complete set of Natural Golf clubs on Craigslist for 75$. Includes: 3,5,7 woods, 5-9 irons, and pw gw sw lw plus a putter. Also has a driver, but I leave that at home because I'm still trying to contain the 3 wood. What do you all think of these clubs as a starter set? I know the grips are strange, but otherwise I know little about them in comparison to a set by a more traditional brand. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks

[rustyredcab]

They made several models. Some were better than others but none were great -- and they were overpriced. But, for $75 they are not overpriced. Older models were heavy. This could be good or bad for a starter set depending on your opinion about control vs feeling the club head. The grips are oversized and not tapered. They were designed for a ten-finger grip which was and is a bad idea. But the shafts will take regular grips. The lie was often very upright -- I think their idea of standard was at least 2* upright and about 1/2" long. If you can get the lie checked, and then bent to fit your body size, and you re-grip them, they would be good-as-any garage sale set.

If the woods are the copper woods, people liked them and they feel great when stuck well. If the lies were not so upright, I might even bust out my old ones.

[sakinclancy]

  On 5/26/2013 at 11:50 AM, rjb361 said:

Hello all, I am new to golf. Have only been playing for 6 months now. I bought a complete set of Natural Golf clubs on Craigslist for 75$. Includes: 3,5,7 woods, 5-9 irons, and pw gw sw lw plus a putter. Also has a driver, but I leave that at home because I'm still trying to contain the 3 wood. What do you all think of these clubs as a starter set? I know the grips are strange, but otherwise I know little about them in comparison to a set by a more traditional brand. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks

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Due to back injuries, I enlisted Natural Golf as a remedy that would allow me to continue the sport. I can honestly say that it has worked as I expected. Natural Golf as an entity has been replaced by Todd Graves Single Plane Academy. He was a long-term student of Moe Norman and is singularily qualified to teach the method. It is a simpler, more easily learned method of golf. It is my suggestion for someone new to the game. To the naysayers who suggest the conventional approach, you should ask why the average golfers's scores have not improved in decades.

[David in FL]

  On 4/27/2017 at 12:05 AM, sakinclancy said:

you should ask why the average golfers's scores have not improved in decades.

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That's easy.  Because golf is hard.  Just as it has always been.  

[sakinclancy]

  On 4/27/2017 at 12:49 AM, David in FL said:

That's easy.  Because golf is hard.  Just as it has always been.  

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I won't argue that golf's a difficult sport, but isn't instruction meant to make the difficult more manageable? In other words, lower your scores. That's nearly biblical on the Golf Channel.

[David in FL]

  On 4/27/2017 at 12:54 AM, sakinclancy said:

I won't argue that golf's a difficult sport, but isn't instruction meant to make the difficult more manageable? In other words, lower your scores. That's nearly biblical on the Golf Channel.

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Only to a certain point.  

With all due respect to Moe, the inherent difficulty of the game itself, equipment limitations imposed by the rules, and the athleticism and physical capacity of the individual golfer all effectively limit how low scores can reasonably go.  Not because golfers aren't using a relatively obscure methodology to learn/play the game.

[sakinclancy]

Your point is well taken. The single plane swing, however, has been proven to produce the desired ball flight-straight. It replicates iron Byron. As you acknowledged, there is a limit to the score of an average golfer. Good reasons to try this approach. 

[iacas]

  On 4/27/2017 at 11:15 AM, sakinclancy said:

Your point is well taken. The single plane swing, however, has been proven to produce the desired ball flight-straight. It replicates iron Byron. As you acknowledged, there is a limit to the score of an average golfer. Good reasons to try this approach. 

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That doesn't make any sense.

1. You can swing a ton of ways and produce a "straight" ball flight.
2. Who says that's the desired ball flight?
3. Iron Byron? What's that got to do with anything? Iron Byron doesn't have elbows, hips, etc.
4. A "single plane" swing still shifts planes. It's not swinging the club on the same plane.

What are the "good reasons" to try this approach? Name the last PGA Tour player to win with a Moe-like swing?

Also…

[sakinclancy]

  On 4/27/2017 at 2:15 PM, iacas said:

That doesn't make any sense.

1. You can swing a ton of ways and produce a "straight" ball flight.
2. Who says that's the desired ball flight?
3. Iron Byron? What's that got to do with anything? Iron Byron doesn't have elbows, hips, etc.
4. A "single plane" swing still shifts planes. It's not swinging the club on the same plane.

What are the "good reasons" to try this approach? Name the last PGA Tour player to win with a Moe-like swing?

Also…

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Yes, there are a lot of swings that produce straight flight. At any PGA Tour event you can witness the likes of Bubba Watson, who's nearly airborne at impact to Jim Furyk, who appears to be in a phone booth. My point is simply this: a single plane swing is easier to learn and repeat. Period. Sandy Lyle won with this type stroke.

[lastings]

  On 4/27/2017 at 8:11 PM, sakinclancy said:

a single plane swing is easier to learn and repeat. Period. 

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no.  That's the classic Moe Norman myth.   

every swing is just as difficult to learn.  Single plane might be actually be more difficult, because it is somewhat unnatural.   but, regardless, learn is not the difficult part.  repeat is the difficult part.   to be able to repeat the same swing over and over, it takes practice.  hours and hours and days and days of practice.   
 

Many people in the Moe Norman fan club seem to think he figured out the secret to golf.  and they are right.  but that secret had nothing to do with his swing.  Norman could repeatedly hit the ball exactly the same over and over because he'd wake up, eat, breathe, and sleep at the driving range.  I don't care what kind of swing you have, whether it's hogan, stack and tilt, single plane, or some new swing.  only hours and hours of practice are going to make it repeatable.   there is not magical swing that just repeats itself.  

  On 4/27/2017 at 11:15 AM, sakinclancy said:

...proven to produce the desired ball flight-straight.

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furthermore, who ever said straight is the desired flight?   I suppose it would be if you were a robot and never mishit the ball.  but, we are human and, thus, we will mishit.  if your ball flight is straight, then it's a crapshoot which way your mishit is going to go.  could go left, could go right.  but, if you can bend it one way or the other with consistency, then you can predict where your mishits will go, and give yourself a better chance to plan for that inevitable outcome.  

[iacas]

  On 4/27/2017 at 8:11 PM, sakinclancy said:

My point is simply this: a single plane swing is easier to learn and repeat. Period.

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I don't think you can prove that at all.

And you skipped a lot of the other smaller points I made in my post above.

[sakinclancy]

  On 4/27/2017 at 10:21 PM, lastings said:

no.  That's the classic Moe Norman myth.   

every swing is just as difficult to learn.  Single plane might be actually be more difficult, because it is somewhat unnatural.   but, regardless, learn is not the difficult part.  repeat is the difficult part.   to be able to repeat the same swing over and over, it takes practice.  hours and hours and days and days of practice.   
 

Many people in the Moe Norman fan club seem to think he figured out the secret to golf.  and they are right.  but that secret had nothing to do with his swing.  Norman could repeatedly hit the ball exactly the same over and over because he'd wake up, eat, breathe, and sleep at the driving range.  I don't care what kind of swing you have, whether it's hogan, stack and tilt, single plane, or some new swing.  only hours and hours of practice are going to make it repeatable.   there is not magical swing that just repeats itself.  

furthermore, who ever said straight is the desired flight?   I suppose it would be if you were a robot and never mishit the ball.  but, we are human and, thus, we will mishit.  if your ball flight is straight, then it's a crapshoot which way your mishit is going to go.  could go left, could go right.  but, if you can bend it one way or the other with consistency, then you can predict where your mishits will go, and give yourself a better chance to plan for that inevitable outcome.  

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Last time I checked most of us would donate a kidney if we thought we could consistently hit the ball where we're aiming. Absent a need to draw or fade the ball, that flight is straight. And I agree that whatever swing you choose, it takes practice to get it right. However, conventional golf starts on one plane but impacts the ball on a second plane. Takes great timing to get it right.

[iacas]

  On 4/27/2017 at 10:40 PM, sakinclancy said:

Last time I checked most of us would donate a kidney if we thought we could consistently hit the ball where we're aiming. Absent a need to draw or fade the ball, that flight is straight. And I agree that whatever swing you choose, it takes practice to get it right. However, conventional golf starts on one plane but impacts the ball on a second plane. Takes great timing to get it right.

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It's obvious that you've bought the "single plane" thing hook, line, and sinker, to mix my metaphors a little.

A few points:

• Virtually every PGA Tour player plays a slight curve. The straight shot is nearly impossible, and is thus always working away from the target when it curves. A consistent pattern can curve toward the target.
• The "single plane swing" is not occurring on a single plane - Moe Norman himself shifted planes throughout his swing - he was on a different plane at the top of the backswing than he was at setup, etc.
• I don't know what timing you're talking about - there's still the same sort of timing in the Moe Norman type swing. He still did things like… flex and extend his elbow, roll his forearms, hinge his wrists, etc.
• No PGA Tour player has played and won consistently with a Moe-like swing.

Look, I'm glad you like it, but let's cool the goofy claims, because you're gonna get push-back…

[lastings]

  On 4/27/2017 at 10:40 PM, sakinclancy said:

Takes great timing to get it right.

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this can be said of all swings. 

[Buckeyebowman]

I remember reading an interview with Johnny Miller when he was in his ascendancy on the Tour. The interviewer asked what he worked on when "practicing" before a round. Miller replied that he did not "practice" before a round. He was simply warming up and "finding what swing" he had that day!

Miller claimed that he had 3 swings. One was his normal "Johnny Miller" swing, which featured string straight, towering long irons. Another was his "Ben Hogan" swing, which demonstrated a slight fade bias. His third swing was his "Chi Chi Rodriguez" swing, which had a decided draw bias.

He simply wanted to know how to play the course that day with the swing he had. It's kind of like fishing. "You never step into the same stream twice!"

[sakinclancy]

  On 4/30/2017 at 2:41 AM, Buckeyebowman said:

I remember reading an interview with Johnny Miller when he was in his ascendancy on the Tour. The interviewer asked what he worked on when "practicing" before a round. Miller replied that he did not "practice" before a round. He was simply warming up and "finding what swing" he had that day!

Miller claimed that he had 3 swings. One was his normal "Johnny Miller" swing, which featured string straight, towering long irons. Another was his "Ben Hogan" swing, which demonstrated a slight fade bias. His third swing was his "Chi Chi Rodriguez" swing, which had a decided draw bias.

He simply wanted to know how to play the course that day with the swing he had. It's kind of like fishing. "You never step into the same stream twice!"

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I like Johnny and I trust whatever he has to say about golf. Working on one swing, let alone three, is challenge enough for me. If I had a fraction of his talent.

Thanks for the post; it was entertaining.

[Buckeyebowman]

Ah, but he only "worked on" one swing! His "Johnny Miller" swing. What swing you have when you show up at the course is a different matter. Nobody swings the same way all the time. Otherwise, Nicklaus or Tiger would have won every tournament they entered!

[Jack Watson]

The Moe Norman zealots are annoying.  The man hit millions of golf balls.

Also think of this in lifting a heavy weight is it better to extend your arms away from yourself or keep the load closer?

His setup and swing were his signature not some silly secret to golf.