Ideal Putting

[GHansen]

I have studied much more about the full swing than i have about putting. That being said I want to explore more about putting and learn as much as I can about it. Lately I have been experimenting with the putting stroke. Ive been reading about all different styles of teaching. I haven't figured out what the best approach is when teaching/ applying basic fundamentals of the stroke. The latest book I read was the 3 degrees of putting by Michael Breed. I have always thought that the ideal way to hit a put and get it rolling as fast as possible was by hitting the ball above the equator. Breed agrees with that but suggests to do it with negative loft. I would like to see what you all think about putting as well as see if anyone can share any testing they may have performed or have evidence of what the ideal way to strike a putt and get it rolling as quickly as possible instead of skidding and then rolling.

[Stretch]

David Orr is the man on putting, in my opinion. I would seek out his stuff.

http://www.golfwrx.com/73519/putting-guru-david-orr-seeking-no-status/

This has been the big thing for me in terms of speed control.

And, as far as green reading goes, AimPoint obviously.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by GHansen

I have studied much more about the full swing than i have about putting. That being said I want to explore more about putting and learn as much as I can about it. Lately I have been experimenting with the putting stroke. Ive been reading about all different styles of teaching. I haven't figured out what the best approach is when teaching/ applying basic fundamentals of the stroke. The latest book I read was the 3 degrees of putting by Michael Breed. I have always thought that the ideal way to hit a put and get it rolling as fast as possible was by hitting the ball above the equator. Breed agrees with that but suggests to do it with negative loft. I would like to see what you all think about putting as well as see if anyone can share any testing they may have performed or have evidence of what the ideal way to strike a putt and get it rolling as quickly as possible instead of skidding and then rolling.

Never heard about this before. When putting you want to hit the ball with a slightly ascending blow. This can be accomplished by ball position in your stance, more forward,  more upward the stroke is. Usually you want a slight up stroke, with low loft, so the dynamic loft is near 4 degrees i believe. This will get the ball with top spin, with out making the ball jump.

I putt with a 35" Odyssey white ice number 1 putter. I have about 10 1.5 inch long led tape pieces on the back of the putter to add more weight. I like heavy putters. I use a round putter grip because if you mis-aligned a normal flat top putter grip you have to regrip it. So i uses a Winn oversized grip, with about 3 extra wraps of tape to build it up. I get the putter grip in the palm of my left hand, this really locks it in and i can go left wrist flat down my target line. My right hand grip is very light just placing it on the side of the grip.

For me, i pick a spot out infront of the ball 1-2". Then a align my putter to that, then take my stance, then take my grip. From there i do a slight forward press, and strike the ball. For me, i like to choke down on the putter, my right hand gets near the end of the putter grip. I keep my hands very close to my body, my elbows are very close to my rib cage and stay there through out the stroke. For me, my grip is like bringing my palms together to pray, so my hands are touching the side of the putter grip.

My stroke is an arc stroke. I am not a big fan of straight back straight through, it brings in to many variables. Even if your putting, you swing on an arc, because your rotating around your spine. So to go straight back and straight through is to bring in unwanted hand movements, in putting i think that's a bad thing.

But you really want to pick something and stick with it. Don't keep changing, you'll never gain any feel that way.

[Mr. Desmond]

When Breed Says negative Loft, he must be putting with a slight forword press which would reduce the loft on a typical titleist putter from 4 to 2°. I would check your loft on the putter, because if it is 2° And you are forward pressing the same 2°, then you may have a problem.

[iacas]

The only way to hit the ball above the equator is to have negative loft - not 4° to 2°, but literally NEGATIVE loft.

That's the ONLY way to hit above the equator. And I very, very, VERY much disagree with Michael Breed on that.

Ideal putting is about 1-2° of delivered loft (not negative) with 2-3° of rise angle. This puts a teeny bit of topspin or forward spin on the ball, without launching it into the air.

[GHansen]

Thank you stretch for that post!! Also i plan to hopefully visit David Orr this winter. I attended a college that was not far from where he works and regret never getting over to see him. Luckily my brother now is going to the college i graduated from and am planning to set something up with David when i head down there during my off season.

Originally Posted by iacas

The only way to hit the ball above the equator is to have negative loft - not 4° to 2°, but literally NEGATIVE loft.

That's the ONLY way to hit above the equator. And I very, very, VERY much disagree with Michael Breed on that.

Ideal putting is about 1-2° of delivered loft (not negative) with 2-3° of rise angle. This puts a teeny bit of topspin or forward spin on the ball, without launching it into the air.

For starters I'm not disagreeing with you on anything. Again when it comes to putting i don't have facts and I'm only trying to learn and understand so what I'm about to ask is just to help myself understand and learn about how to strike a ball when putting.

if you strike a putt below the equator with a rising AoA and 1-2* of loft wouldn't that cause the ball to launch into the air slightly?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by GHansen

if you strike a putt below the equator with a rising AoA and 1-2* of loft wouldn't that cause the ball to launch into the air slightly?

Yes, ever so slightly… which is required because the ball is sitting in a little depression on the green. We need less loft to clear the "lip" of the depression now than when green speeds were much slower, but a 1.5° launch angle is not all that severe, especially if it has some forward spin to it. But we still need to clear the lip of the depression in which the ball sits.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by iacas

The only way to hit the ball above the equator is to have negative loft - not 4° to 2°, but literally NEGATIVE loft.

That's the ONLY way to hit above the equator. ...

This reminded me of an old round-bar putter which I used during the late 1990s in Southwest Oklahoma. The weather was dry, and the grass blades on the greens were a bit coarse. Also, the greenskeepers didn't cut the greens as close to protect it. So, several golfers in the area had a local clubsmith make the putter shown below.

It got the ball rolling, and gave good distance on the coarser grass. (Greens were smooth, the blades just a bit thick). Only problem: you had to be careful using a "Texas wedge" off the fringe or fairway's edge: There was a good chance you'd pop the ball up, since it was cushioned atop the turf. I quit using this when I got back to the Midwest and finer grass blades on the greens - ball just rolled too hot.

[saevel25]

I think the concept comes from the fact that if you have a sphere, and you want to strike the sphere so it rolls with out slipping, you must strike it on the vertical center axis, approximately 7/5*R from the ground. So for a golf ball, 0.336" above center. This would be good if we putted on something like a pool table. But on a golf green, not so good.

http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-billiards.html

So i can get were Breed says you need to hit above the equator with a negative loft. Its the only way to strike that point, and it theoretically it will cause a pure roll.

[Hacker James]

I seem to recall a putter on the market several years ago that had a rounded face. Or maybe I am confusing that with the bass ackwards putter that came out. The idea being was to get instant roll. Never used it, so can not say one way or the other.