Relief NEAR Boundary Fence

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

These are like an expanded membership application for the SCGA.

I just got 7 right out of 10, need to read up a bit more. Maybe take a test before every round.

Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Glad you're enjoying them.

LOL, they are kind of hard!  Took 2 so far (the "basic" ones) and got 8 the first time and only 5 the second. :(

I've done as good as 10 out of 10 and as poorly as 5.

[Dormie1360]

Fourputt makes good points on how a committee could mark the course do to avoid all this. Also Ashville gives excellent advice. When I'm giving rules seminars..........ok I've only given one seminar.....but if i do more the first thing I say about taking relief under rule 24 or 25 is MAKE SURE you know exactly where your NPR is going to be before you touch your golf ball. Once lifted you are required to continue with the applicable rule. Nothing like lifting your golf ball and then discovering you are going to have to drop it somewhere that's going to give you an unplayable lie. You can say "oops, never mind", but it will cost you a one stroke penalty to put the ball back.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The USGA already has those tests HERE.

QFT....

These are great fun and very instructive.  Most players, even those that think they know the rules will find that they miss a LOT more than they think they will.  Start with the basic scenarios.......believe me, I find that I miss at least one question out of 10 more often than not, and missing 3 or 4 isn't all that unusual either.

[MEfree]

In determining the nearest point of relief, are you required to consider points where you would be standing out of bounds on private property?

My gut reaction when confronted with this today was no, but looking at http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-24/#d24-2b-3.7 and http://lindamillergolf.blogspot.com/2012/03/ask-linda-429-nearest-point-of-relief.html, now I am not so sure.

My situation on #3 at Keystone Ranch- my ball was sitting on the right side of the cart path, about 1.5 feet away from a boundary fence to the right of the path.  The nearest point for a right handed golfer would have been to the left of the path as a righty would have had to drop the ball out of bounds in order to be able to take a stance off the right side of the path.  However, as a lefty, I could theoretically have dropped the ball just right of the path and been left with a shot where I likely would have had to stand in somebody's yard and stick my club between the well spaced rails of the fence and play the shot.  I know that you don't get relief from a boundary fence, but I assumed that you are not required to stand on private property that is out of bounds and determined my nearest point of relief as being left of the path.  Was this correct?

[iacas]

In determining the nearest point of relief, are you required to consider points where you would be standing out of bounds on private property?

Yes.

My situation on #3 at Keystone Ranch- my ball was sitting on the right side of the cart path, about 1.5 feet away from a boundary fence to the right of the path.  The nearest point for a right handed golfer would have been to the left of the path as a righty would have had to drop the ball out of bounds in order to be able to take a stance off the right side of the path.  However, as a lefty, I could theoretically have dropped the ball just right of the path and been left with a shot where I likely would have had to stand in somebody's yard and stick my club between the well spaced rails of the fence and play the shot.  I know that you don't get relief from a boundary fence, but I assumed that you are not required to stand on private property that is out of bounds and determined my nearest point of relief as being left of the path.  Was this correct?

No, you were wrong.

The pages you cited clearly state this.

[Phil McGleno]

Drop where you have to drop-Then if it is reasonable to play the shot opposite handed you might get another drop-Since you can use your driver you can get far enough away from the path to be fine-And if not to drop a little bit farther away since youll be on the other side of the cart path. --Now the thread can be closed i think.

[MEfree]

Thanks...I realized the 2nd link was pretty clear (but not official) and the diagram showed the feet OB in the USGA link, but with no specific mention of being required to stand on private property OB, I figured it was worth double checking.

Any idea what the rational is for requiring a player to stand on private property that is OB?  I realize they don't want to give relief from a boundary fence, but in this case, the boundary fence did not interfere with my stance or swing had I played the ball as it lay on the cart path (but didn't want to mess up my club or hurt myself).

Assuming I ended up dropping the ball approximately 3 club lengths from where it originally lay (and about the same distance from where my nearest point of relief was), what penalty do I incur?  Assuming that I hit the ball 3 times on the hole, what score did I make?  Retroactively take 2 unplayable lies for a 5, or is there another penalty.  Had I taken 1 unplayable lie and the ball stayed where I dropped it, I imagine that I would have been standing on the path and then been entitled to a free drop on the left side of the path where I actually dropped it.

Would another option have been to determine nearest point of relief barely right of the path, then take my 1 club length back onto the path, drop on the path and see where the ball ended up (possibly to the left side of the path if it got a favorable roll)?

[iacas]

Any idea what the rational is for requiring a player to stand on private property that is OB?

You got your answer, and we're not going to turn this thread into one of your typical threads. The Rules of Golf do not supersede local law, and property owners are free to erect fences if they want.

Any idea what the rational is for requiring a player to stand on private property that is OB?  I realize they don't want to give relief from a boundary fence, but in this case, the boundary fence did not interfere with my stance or swing had I played the ball as it lay on the cart path (but didn't want to mess up my club or hurt myself).

You hit it there. Play it, or drop it. The choice is yours.

Assuming I ended up dropping the ball approximately 3 club lengths from where it originally lay (and about the same distance from where my nearest point of relief was), what penalty do I incur?  Assuming that I hit the ball 3 times on the hole, what score did I make?  Retroactively take 2 unplayable lies for a 5, or is there another penalty.  Had I taken 1 unplayable lie and the ball stayed where I dropped it, I imagine that I would have been standing on the path and then been entitled to a free drop on the left side of the path where I actually dropped it.

With a second or two of thought, you played from the wrong place. Look up the rules for that.

Would another option have been to determine nearest point of relief barely right of the path, then take my 1 club length back onto the path, drop on the path and see where the ball ended up (possibly to the left side of the path if it got a favorable roll)?

That would not have been the nearest point of relief, so no, you could not have done that.

[MEfree]

Drop where you have to drop-Then if it is reasonable to play the shot opposite handed you might get another drop-Since you can use your driver you can get far enough away from the path to be fine-And if not to drop a little bit farther away since youll be on the other side of the cart path.

--Now the thread can be closed i think.

Thanks...that would have been my best option as a left handed golfer.

What score did I make being that I did not do this and hit the ball 3 times?  Let's assume that the fence was not interfering with my left handed swing initially, so that had my ball not been on the path, I would have hit it left handed (meaning I incorrectly determined my nearest point of relief).

Different assumption- If the fence was interfering with a left handed swing from where my ball lay on the path and I would have played the shot right (opposite) handed had I not been on the path (but still been the same position relative to the fence), then am I safe assuming that I could just take the drop as if I was right handed, then, once clear of the fence after taking the drop, play the shot left handed?

[iacas]

Different assumption- If the fence was interfering with a left handed swing from where my ball lay on the path and I would have played the shot right (opposite) handed had I not been on the path (but still been the same position relative to the fence), then am I safe assuming that I could just take the drop as if I was right handed, then, once clear of the fence after taking the drop, play the shot left handed?

That's what he said.

If it was reasonable that you had to take a right-handed swing, you can take relief for that, which includes the stance in the determination of NPR. Then if you are far enough away that you can make a lefty swing, you're free to do so. It's a new situation.

[rogolf]

If you dropped and played from an incorrect nearest point of relief, you have played from a wrong place and incurred a penalty of two strokes.

[MEfree]

Drop where you have to drop-Then if it is reasonable to play the shot opposite handed you might get another drop-Since you can use your driver you can get far enough away from the path to be fine-And if not to drop a little bit farther away since youll be on the other side of the cart path.

--Now the thread can be closed i think.

That's what he said.

I thought he said take the drop first (as a lefty), then AFTER TAKING THE DROP, if it is reasonable to play opposite (righty), you can do so (and potentially get relief on the left side of the path because relief to the right of the path for a righty would be OB).  The reason I am asking about the scenario of immediately assuming you are playing opposite handed is that my ball was very close to the right side of the path so that going to the nearest point of relief to the right meant only a couple of inches.  I didn't examine it very closely, but it seemed obvious that I would be standing (at least partiall)y OB that direction (assuming the fence was not there).  I am not 100% sure if the fence would have interfered with a left handed swing had I played the ball as it lay.  Assuming I would have played the original as it lay shot from the path righty (which I am capable of doing as I have shot in the 70s righty), then I didn't drop in the wrong spot.

I mistakenly thought that nearest point of relief would not require that I stand OB, so I didn't really consider playing it from the path, so I don't know if forced to, whether I would have done it righty or lefty, so I will assess myself the 2 strokes when turning in my card.

[iacas]

So all your questions have been answered now.

Cool.

[Golfingdad]

And if you want to read more about it, then check out this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/68147/relief-near-boundary-fence/0_30 I started it a year ago asking nearly the exact same question.

[MEfree]

.

Actually in this scenario you might have to take relief 3 times.  First for playing right handed when the ball lies on the path.  You drop on the OB side of the path, and now your only swing is left handed, so you take relief on the opposite side, still with a lefty stance (I think - this is getting a little sticky here) as that is what you are taking relief for.  This now allows you to swing righty again, but now you are again standing on the path, so you get relief even farther on that side of the path.

I believe that ultimately you end up in the same place, but the only uncertainty in my mind is the lefty stance for finding NPR on the second drop.

So where do we go to find out definitely if we have to drop 2 or 3 times?  While they may wind up in the same place anyways, if you are required to take the 2nd drop from the same side of the ball as the first, skipping a step would be a breach (as it is possible that your drop could roll some changing the NPR or even get to a position that gives you full relief so you don't need the 3rd drop)

I've done as good as 10 out of 10 and as poorly as 5.

I have always respected your knowledge of the rules.  Maybe its time TST starts recruiting more rules experts.

[iacas]

I have always respected your knowledge of the rules.  Maybe its time TST starts recruiting more rules experts.

We have several. How many right answers do you need?

[MEfree]

We have several. How many right answers do you need?

I really do appreciate the contribution of experts like Fourputt.

I only need 1 right answer.  Let me ask it this way- If you are taking relief based on the fact that you would hit the shot opposite handed were you forced to play it where it lies, are you then required to determine NPR and take the drop as if you are going to hit opposite handed even though you will not hit opposite handed after dropping?  Fourputt seemed uncertain and nobody else has stepped up and given a definitive answer.

[iacas]

I really do appreciate the contribution of experts like Fourputt.

I only need 1 right answer.  Let me ask it this way- If you are taking relief based on the fact that you would hit the shot opposite handed were you forced to play it where it lies, are you then required to determine NPR and take the drop as if you are going to hit opposite handed even though you will not hit opposite handed after dropping?  Fourputt seemed uncertain and nobody else has stepped up and given a definitive answer.

For the sake of clarity I would proceed through all of the steps, not skipping any. If a lefty shot is reasonable, find the NPR for that and drop. Since you have a club length, if you knew you were then going to likely play righty, you could use your driver for that club length and eliminate a step, and still be doing your due diligence. It might require only one drop in that case.