• Announcements

    • iacas

      Visit FlagstickRule.com   03/13/2017

      Visit the site flagstickrule.com to read about and sign a petition for the USGA/R&A regarding the one terrible rule in the proposed "modernized" rules for 2019.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
CR McDivot

No rule prohibuting unsportsmanlike conduct?

14 posts in this topic

When I learned to play, instruction in etiquette and common courtesy came before actual golfing skills were taught. It was of the utmost importance to behave as a gentleman on the course. There was generally no need to institute a rule prohibiting being an ass!

Admittedly this was a long time ago, but when exactly did it become acceptable to throw a childish fit over a bad shot, throwing/breaking clubs and/or cursing in competition or even in a casual round?

This sort of behavior demeans the spirit of the game and IMHO should be penalized by disqualification in competition, and sternly frowned upon in casual play.

Flame away, heathen!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Originally Posted by CR McDivot

Admittedly this was a long time ago, but when exactly did it become acceptable to throw a childish fit over a bad shot, throwing/breaking clubs and/or cursing in competition or even in a casual round?

I have heard rumours that this has happened tens of years ago already. Not sure about hundreds.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post

When I learned to play, instruction in etiquette and common courtesy came before actual golfing skills were taught. It was of the utmost importance to behave as a gentleman on the course. There was generally no need to institute a rule prohibiting being an ass!

Admittedly this was a long time ago, but when exactly did it become acceptable to throw a childish fit over a bad shot, throwing/breaking clubs and/or cursing in competition or even in a casual round?

This sort of behavior demeans the spirit of the game and IMHO should be penalized by disqualification in competition, and sternly frowned upon in casual play.

Flame away, heathen!

I'ts never been acceptable, but it also isn't a new thing.  There have been club and tantrum throwers for as long as I've known about the game, and that's more than 40 years, and certainly for long before that.

There is recourse under the rules for an exceptional breach of etiquette.  Rule 33-7:

Quote:

33-7 . Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion

A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.

Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.

If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette , it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.

...and this decision:

Quote:

33-7/8

Meaning of "Serious Breach of Etiquette"

Q. In Rule 33-7 , what is meant by a "serious breach of etiquette"?

A. A serious breach of etiquette is behavior by a player that shows a significant disregard for an aspect of the Etiquette Section, such as intentionally distracting another player or intentionally offending someone.

Although a Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7 for a single act that it considers to be a serious breach of etiquette, in most cases it is recommended that such a penalty should be imposed only in the event of a further serious breach.

Ultimately, the application of a penalty for a serious breach of etiquette under Rule 33-7 is at the discretion of the Committee.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I'ts never been acceptable,

This.......

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Where do you draw the line constituting illegal behavior? There's no way you can do it objectively and only controversy will result.

Example: Tiger Woods hits a bad shot on hole 72 at the US Open but manages to finish with a 1 shot lead afterwards. He lets loose an obscenity under his breath, but there's no mistaking what he said and every camera in the world caught it. A senior rules official who's had enough of Tiger decides to get him disqualified because in his opinion, swearing has no place on the golf course and he doesn't want the kids watching on TV to imitate the behavior.

Example 2: Jim Furyk is in contention on hole 16 at the waste management open, someone yells an insult to his mother during his backswing and he angrily yells for him to be thrown out. A rules official considers any such interaction with a fan to be unsportsmanlike conduct and gives him a DQ, costing him the win.

Example 3: Bubba Watson hits a wild drive and finds his ball against a tree root. He attempts to crush the shot onto the green but nearly breaks his wrist instead and releases the club, sending it flying onto the green. A strict "no throwing clubs" rule has been instituted with zero tolerance because it has no place in golf and Bubba is DQ'ed from the event.

Example 4: Freddie Couples has an opportunity to win a Masters title but hits a hook on the final hole, and drops his club in frustration. An official in the club decides it's such a great story after he went on to win that they declare him the winner and overlook the infraction because he's a class act most of the time. This being the Masters, nothing the USGA, PGA, or R&A; can do will make them change.

Example 5: The first woman qualifies to compete in the Masters. She plays terribly despite her incredible length and racks up high scores on the front. Bob Barker begins to heckle her a bit because none of her pets are spayed or neutered, and it ends up getting ugly. Bob really starts asking for it, and she finally loses her cool and pops him in the jaw. An all out brawl ensues, resulting in her disqualification.

Bobby Jones had the attitude that the game should police itself and players build their own legacy. I don't think players benefit from bad behavior like this and I think they suffer from a poor image if they do it often.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Where do you draw the line constituting illegal behavior? There's no way you can do it objectively and only controversy will result.

Bobby Jones had the attitude that the game should police itself and players build their own legacy. I don't think players benefit from bad behavior like this and I think they suffer from a poor image if they do it often.

Which is why it's left up to the committee.  They make the assumption that the committee will use good judgement in its decision to impose or pass on a given offense.  It's also why the recommendation is worded to suggest that such an imposition should only be made after multiple (and relatively grievous) offenses.  I don't see dropping a club over one's back in disgust as even significant.  Snapping the shaft over one's knee, or helicoptering it 30 yards is more serious, as is screaming f-bombs that echo off the distant hills.  Doing it more than once in a competition should be subject to review.  It's a matter of severity.  There is nothing wrong with a controlled display of emotion.  When it's not controlled, then some level of action should be taken.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Am I the only one that saw Furyk's gross violation on sportsmanship on the 9th green!!  After he missed his put, then tapped in he stood about 20' away in direct sight of Dufner and proceeded to take a putting stance as Dufner was lining up his putt.  Furyk even stood glancing over toward Dufner, waited until Dufner was at address and about to hit.  At that point Furyk took a practice swing.  I believe that his actions were intentional and totally classless.  He lost me as a fan.  If that was somebody in my weekly group he would have had 3 clubs wrapped around his neck.  He should be fined heavily.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Which is why it's left up to the committee...

Apparently, the committees have been more concerned with offending out of control players than upholding a modicum of decorum.

So much the worse for the state of the game.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please, fellas, don't conflate that money-making travelling circus, the PGA Tour, which exploits golf with our game of golf. Why should we even care, apart from the obvious fact that these guys can hit some pretty good shots, how they run their business ... make no mistake, this is an entertainment business not a sport.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by Asheville

Please, fellas, don't conflate that money-making travelling circus, the PGA Tour, which exploits golf with our game of golf. Why should we even care, apart from the obvious fact that these guys can hit some pretty good shots, how they run their business ... make no mistake, this is an entertainment business not a sport.

Pretty sure it can be both.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by CR McDivot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Which is why it's left up to the committee...

Apparently, the committees have been more concerned with offending out of control players than upholding a modicum of decorum.

So much the worse for the state of the game.

Jeeze... unbend that stiff neck a bit.  So you would rather the everyone was as dull and boring as Dufner?  That would be guaranteed to send the Tour into bankruptcy in about 2 years.  The rule is just fine as it is.  I don't believe I've ever seen an out of control player on Tour... certainly not on TV.  I know from personal knowledge that Baddely lost it at the International several years ago, but I think he must have heard about it from the Tour, because he's been a poster child of decorum since then.  And that tantrum wasn't even televised.  Only us tournament volunteers ever knew about it.

I think you are far too sensitive.  Time to lighten up a bit and let players be human.  The rule will still take care of any cases which warrant it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by jawhhi

Am I the only one that saw Furyk's gross violation on sportsmanship on the 9th green!!  After he missed his put, then tapped in he stood about 20' away in direct sight of Dufner and proceeded to take a putting stance as Dufner was lining up his putt.  Furyk even stood glancing over toward Dufner, waited until Dufner was at address and about to hit.  At that point Furyk took a practice swing.  I believe that his actions were intentional and totally classless.  He lost me as a fan.  If that was somebody in my weekly group he would have had 3 clubs wrapped around his neck.  He should be fined heavily.

If you asked Dufner about it, I bet he did not even notice.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by jawhhi

Am I the only one that saw Furyk's gross violation on sportsmanship on the 9th green!!  After he missed his put, then tapped in he stood about 20' away in direct sight of Dufner and proceeded to take a putting stance as Dufner was lining up his putt.  Furyk even stood glancing over toward Dufner, waited until Dufner was at address and about to hit.  At that point Furyk took a practice swing.  I believe that his actions were intentional and totally classless.  He lost me as a fan.  If that was somebody in my weekly group he would have had 3 clubs wrapped around his neck.  He should be fined heavily.

Yep.  I think you're the only one.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Asheville

Please, fellas, don't conflate that money-making travelling circus, the PGA Tour, which exploits golf with our game of golf. Why should we even care, apart from the obvious fact that these guys can hit some pretty good shots, how they run their business ... make no mistake, this is an entertainment business not a sport.

And the PGA Tour doesn't do anything, directly or indirectly, to expose people to the sport and encourage play.

Bonus points for the use of the word conflate though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    PING Golf
    Leupold Golf
    Snell Golf
    Talamore Golf Resort
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    •   On one hand, you say you have trouble with lag putts, then you say you're not a poor putter.  And someone has told you that you're decelerating.  My suggestion, a FEELING of acceleration might help you get more putts to the hole, especially the long ones.
    • I first met with and talked about golf with Dean Snell when he was the main man at TaylorMade's moderately lavish TP Red/Black launch event the weekend before the 2006 Masters at Reynolds Plantation (coverage here, here, here, here, and elsewhere on the The Sand Trap .com). Dean had been snagged by TaylorMade after helping Titleist introduce the Pro V1/V1x to the golf world. A little while ago, we solicited questions from you, the members and readers of The Sand Trap .com, and what follows are Dean's responses to the first chunk of those questions. You'll notice that we jump right in to the Q&A. If you'd like to read more about Dean Snell, you can do so here. If you'd like to check out Snell's golf balls, they're right here. And of course, everything else is available at http://snellgolf.com/. One last note: Dean broke up a few of the questions so that he could more clearly answer pieces of them the way he wanted. Aside from editing for spelling/grammar, we've left these changes as is. Now, right into the Q&A… Technology Questions 1) How big of a difference is there between premium golf balls? DEAN: The biggest difference today between premium tour balls is the short game spin and control. Typically, when spin is controlled with mid and short irons, you can prevent the ballooning and problems in the wind… and when you get closer to the green, the thinner urethane covers allow for more short game spin and control. 2) Reducing SKUs seems wise but what percentage of golfers do you think you cover with only two models? Bridgestone has four B330 models but you have just one urethane ball. DEAN: I think two to three models is sufficient for entire market. The tour level players can really tell the difference in performance from one ball to another. some like more, some less spin… some firmer, some softer feel… so maybe two balls at tour level. As for the general public, I think if they choose to play a low compression, low spin ball, then the difference is so small that adding more for them is not worth it… also, when some companies talk about swing speed, I do not think this is worth having 3 SKU to fool consumers into thinking they need this in their game. 3) Bridgestone (and I think Callaway) has come out with tour caliber balls for players who swing under 105mph. Is it possible to design a tour caliber ball for a specific segment of swing speed or is this just mostly a marketing thing? DEAN: The whole swing speed story to me is one of the most over-rated stories in golf. Companies force or teach golfers to play low compression balls so their low swing speed can compress the ball. The problem with this is that low compression balls have the lowest spin in all shots, so they are pushing players to play a ball with no performance at all… and when you need that spin around the green, it's not there… 4) Since the four piece urerthane seems so hot in the ball industry right now, is there any chance that Snell will come out with a four-piece ball? DEAN: Stay tuned… I am working on several types of protos to address performance. I think when there is a performance target, then we adjust to the layers and materials to meet that target… so layers to help in meeting these targets… let it develop… ha ha… 5) How much diminishing returns are there on the number of layers? DEAN: Every time you add a layer, you add cost and some level of new performance. When I did penta (5 layers) it was to address concerns with the tour players on certain shots that they were seeing. So I always recommend that players do 100 yard and in testing, and see what they like in the ball… choose the ball from the short game testing, as this is where they are different. 6) From your perspective, will you follow the market trend and produce a soft golf ball? DEAN: The GET SUM is very low compression, very soft feeling golf ball. The issue in tour balls going too soft is you lose the feel of hitting good solid shots… players think soft means more spin at that level, so we have to balance this in design. 7) And would you describe why the market is "Hot with Soft or Softer" golf balls? DEAN: The soft golf ball market has taken off due to the lower spinning balls means players can be longer in distance. Today, softer balls means lower spinning, whereas in the past tour balls were higher spinning if softer… 8) Given what we now know about the relative importance of the full swing (driving, approach shots) and the short game and putting, does the old concept of fitting yourself for a golf ball by starting at the green and working backward still apply? DEAN: Absolutely… you should really spend a lot of time from 100 yards and in when testing different golf balls. This is where they are different, and where you would be able to see performance differences. If you test here and cannot tell, then buy the cheapest one. 9) Or should more importance be given to how the ball performs off the driver and irons, which are now understood to be the true scoring clubs? DEAN: No chance. Fitting a ball with a driver is a big mistake… you hit one drive, but you have to finish the hole, and play most of your golf around the greens, so choose a ball around the green, not off the tee. They will all go about the same difference off the tee today. 10) Is electronic technology embedded within the golf ball ever going to happen? For instance are we likely to see trackers or sensors anytime soon? I have tested this concept several years ago. Problem is that it is illegal to the rules of golf. The USGA will not allow, as you would have an advantage over someone else who did not have it. The other problem is that it was super expensive — over $4 per ball to have technology put into the ball — so it added $48 per doz, plus you had to buy the controller to find it… it does not really speed up play unless everyone on the course has it… which will be tough to implement. We look forward to bringing you the additional parts of this Q&A in the coming weeks. Thank you to Dean Snell for taking the time to answer these and the other questions still pending. Again, if you're looking to pay less AND get the best ball on the market today, https://snellgolf.com/.
    • I'm all for ready golf, but I think it's rude for everyone to hole out before you've made it to the green. That's just me though. 
    • Exactly. Unfortunately, we had a ringside seat to just such a thing yesterday.  The group ahead of us had finally made it to the green on 3.  One was in a green side bunker, while the others were on the green itself.  I asked my buddy, blade or chunk, as we watched from 60 yards out.  He said he'd leave it in the bunker.  I won.  Hard blade 30 yards over the green.  The remainder of the group WAITED while he raked the bunker and then walked completely across the green and proceeded to chip all the way back, almost dumping it in the same bunker again.  Again, Larry, Moe, and Curly wait for Bunker Boy to meander back and play his shot before playing theirs.  After all, he was away...   3 more swings and he was finally in the hole.  Total elapsed time that group took from when they reached the green, nearly 15 minutes!   We caught them on the next tee box in time to watch two of them knock it into the junk short of the fairway.  When it became obvious that they had no intention of acknowledging us, we politely asked if we could play through while they searched for their balls, and thankfully they agreed.   3 hours later, as we were teeing off on 18, we saw them driving up to the tee box on 12.  Not good golfers, true, but more than anything, they simply didn't move with any sense of purpose, or efficiency.  If we'd have had to play behind them much longer, I would have cut my own throat with my wedge!  
    • I love watching those shows on the golf channel.  Especially Michael Breed.   But, ultimately, it's not really personalized instruction, so you don't really get too much instruction from it.   Maybe a swing thought idea here and there, and some short game drills to work on.  As a matter of fact, I think a long while ago, I learned how to hit out of the sand from the golf channel.  That is still, to this day, the one skill I gain strokes on all of my friends at.   (unfortunately, I imagine bunker shots are like a SV (-8), given that I have like 1 per round.  tops.) But, it's still quite enjoyable nonetheless.   It's always fun to listen to people talk about the golf swing.  If your'e in to that kinda thing.  
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Isaac03
      Isaac03
      (33 years old)
    2. phillyk
      phillyk
      (27 years old)
    3. PhishAreFriends
      PhishAreFriends
      (27 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon