2 comps in one

[redlibbets]

had planned today to play in a knock out match play competition at my club. At the same time there was a medal comp and my oponent and i agreed that we would hole out on each hole and therefore play in both the medal and our K.O. competition. and this was agrred by our club captain and a member of the committee. Unfortunatley after 3 holes anoter committee mamber said that it  was not allowed under the rules of gold to do this. In our pro shop there were mixed views on the subject with it seems prevailing at the moment that it would have to be the committee that supervise the comp to allow this under local rles. Does anyone know the definitive answer

[Rulesman]

33-1 . Conditions; Waiving Rule

The Committee must establish the conditions under which a competition is to be played.

The Committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf.

Certain specific Rules governing stroke play are so substantially different from those governing match play that combining the two forms of play is not practicable and is not permitted. The result of a match played in these circumstances is null and void and, in the stroke play competition, the competitors are disqualified.

[turtleback]

had planned today to play in a knock out match play competition at my club. At the same time there was a medal comp and my oponent and i agreed that we would hole out on each hole and therefore play in both the medal and our K.O. competition. and this was agrred by our club captain and a member of the committee. Unfortunatley after 3 holes anoter committee mamber said that it  was not allowed under the rules of gold to do this. In our pro shop there were mixed views on the subject with it seems prevailing at the moment that it would have to be the committee that supervise the comp to allow this under local rles. Does anyone know the definitive answer

I think someone should tell "the pro shop" that there is an actual book that contains the actual rules and that THAT is the place to look to find the answers to questions like this - i.e., it is not a subject where mixed views or prevailing opinion have any validity.   Rulesman's cite show just how incredibly black and white this question is

It really is too bad that you guys are being so poorly served by people whose job it is to know better.  It is not your fault, as you asked people who should know.  But they didn't.  Why do people take jobs for which they are so unqualified, even jobs that are volunteer jobs?

[redlibbets]

problem still prevails as I have scoured the rule book and cannot find the answewr so question still remains.DOES ANYONE KNOW THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

[turtleback]

problem still prevails as I have scoured the rule book and cannot find the answewr so question still remains.DOES ANYONE KNOW THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

What was wrong with Rulesman's response right out of the rule book.  The match is nullified and the players are DQed from the stroke play competition.  Clear as a bell.  How much more definitive do you want?  It is a RULE that you cannot play match and stroke play simultaneously and the committee has NO authority to waive a rule.  They cannot make up some BS "local rule" because local rules have to either be authorized under the ROG (Appendix 1) or be specifically approved by the USGA.

So, the match is nullified and you and your opponent are DQed from the stoke play competition.  It sucks, because you were told otherwise before you did it, by a committee member.  And that is why I said that you were so ill-served by the people in  your club and at your course who are supposed to now better.  But just because something sucks doesn't mean it isn't so.  Any other result becomes, "How do the rules apply when you aren't playing by the rules."

[Fourputt]

problem still prevails as I have scoured the rule book and cannot find the answewr so question still remains.DOES ANYONE KNOW THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

How's your reading comprehension?  Rulesman put it up there in black and white.  That's as definitive an answer as anybody could ask for.

[Rulesman]

problem still prevails as I have scoured the rule book and cannot find the answewr so question still remains.DOES ANYONE KNOW THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

Yes, everyone who has read post #2 knows the definitive answer.

Could you not find Rule 33-1 in the book? It is on page 112.

If you had looked in the Index, you would have found the reference under

Match Play : combining with stroke play

or

Stroke Pla y: combining with match play

But please do not SHOUT.

[MEfree]

problem still prevails as I have scoured the rule book and cannot find the answewr so question still remains.DOES ANYONE KNOW THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

It seems obvious that rulesman provided the answer from a USGA perspective, but honestly, I don't understand the logic of the rule.

Why are the rules so substantially different for stroke play that playing by them is effectively waiving the rules of golf for match play.  Yes, certain rule breaches are penalized different (i.e. two stroke penalty in stroke play vs loss of hole in match play), but other than that, what is the difference as long as they aren't giving each other putts?

If OP and his opponent hole out everything according to stroke play rules for their stroke play comp and, for purposes of their match play comp institute a loss of hole penalty if a competitor breaks a match play rule that is penalized with loss of hole, then I don't see any problem playing both at the same time.

If you hit it OOB, in a hazard, in casual water, on a cart path, etc it is all played the same under both stroke and match play.  Other than the penalties, what rules are significantly different in stroke and match play that it would be impossible to follow both?

[David in FL]

It seems obvious that rulesman provided the answer from a USGA perspective, but honestly, I don't understand the logic of the rule .   Why are the rules so substantially different for stroke play that playing by them is effectively waiving the rules of golf for match play.  Yes, certain rule breaches are penalized different (i.e. two stroke penalty in stroke play vs loss of hole in match play), but other than that, what is the difference as long as they aren't giving each other putts? If OP and his opponent hole out everything according to stroke play rules for their stroke play comp and, for purposes of their match play comp institute a loss of hole penalty if a competitor breaks a match play rule that is penalized with loss of hole, then I don't see any problem playing both at the same time. If you hit it OOB, in a hazard, in casual water, on a cart path, etc it is all played the same under both stroke and match play.  Other than the penalties, what rules are significantly different in stroke and match play that it would be impossible to follow both?

Of course you don't...... You also answered your own question.

[Rulesman]

Why are the rules so substantially different for stroke play that playing by them is effectively waiving the rules of golf for match play.

Off the top of my head.

Ignoring a breach

Ball hitting opponent's equipment

Playing out turn

Rule 2-5 v 3-3

Wrong information

Playing from outside teeing ground

Ball moved by opponent/fellow competitor

Moving ball stopped or deflected

Ball assisting play

Ball interfering

Enough to be going on with

[MEfree]

Of course you don't......

You also answered your own question.

How did I answer my own question?  As far as I know, it is not against match play rules NOT to give putts and the OP said that they agreed to putt everything out to conform to the stroke play rules.

[Rulesman]

How did I answer my own question?

But the question you need to answer is how you resolve each of the 10 issues above.

[MEfree]

Off the top of my head.

Ignoring a breach

Ball hitting opponent's equipment

Playing out turn

Rule 2-5 v 3-3

Wrong information

Playing from outside teeing ground

Ball moved by opponent/fellow competitor

Moving ball stopped or deflected

Ball assisting play

Ball interfering

Enough to be going on with

So which of these, if played by stroke play rules, would actually be an agreement to waive match play rules?  How often do these rules come up?

i.e. Ball hitting opponent's equipment- under stroke play, it is rub of the green.  Under match play, the player would have the OPTION of replaying or playing the original.  If the player plays the original, he has chosen a valid match play option and followed the correct stroke play procedure.

Playing out of turn- again, it is an OPTION, not a requirement to make your opponent replay- as long as neither side invokes the replay option, they have conformed with both sets of rules.

Are the rules of golf really so complicated that it is impossible to conform with both match play and stroke play rules at the same time?

[Phil McGleno]

Why should a player be forced to choose an option that's compatible with match play when the other form of play gives him an OPTION. If you remove the choice it is no longer an OPTION and thus it is no longer the RULES OF GOLF for that form of play being followed. And if the player makes the wrong choice that isnt a valid option in the other form of play what then? In the words of my niece when she was younger-DUH.[quote name="MEfree" url="/t/70186/2-comps-in-one#post_902389"] So which of these, if played by stroke play rules, would actually be an agreement to waive match play rules?  How often do these rules come up? i.e. Ball hitting opponent's equipment- under stroke play, it is rub of the green.  Under match play, the player would have the OPTION of replaying or playing the original.  If the player plays the original, he has chosen a valid match play option and followed the correct stroke play procedure.  Playing out of turn- again, it is an OPTION, not a requirement to make your opponent replay- as long as neither side invokes the replay option, they have conformed with both sets of rules. Are the rules of golf really so complicated that it is impossible to conform with both match play and stroke play rules at the same time?  [/quote]

[iacas]

Edit: Uhhh, answered already. Never mind.

The next time I play HORSE I'm going to try to play a regular basketball game at the same time.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Of course you don't......

You also answered your own question.

How did I answer my own question?  As far as I know, it is not against match play rules NOT to give putts and the OP said that they agreed to putt everything out to conform to the stroke play rules.

By agreeing not to concede putts they have waived a rule of golf and both are disqualified.

[MEfree]

Why should a player be forced to choose an option that's compatible with match play when the other form of play gives him an OPTION. If you remove the choice it is no longer an OPTION and thus it is no longer the RULES OF GOLF for that form of play being followed. And if the player makes the wrong choice that isnt a valid option in the other form of play what then? In the words of my niece when she was younger-DUH.

Not saying that a player should be forced to choose an option that's compatible with match play, especially if they want the round to count for a stroke play event.

What I am saying is that if two match play opponents agree to play by stroke play rules, then what is the harm in allowing them to do so?  Are stroke play rules really so much different and so ill suited to match play?  Aren't both sides faced with the same restricted stroke play options?

For many of us, our golf season is coming to an end.  To me it sounds like the OP and his opponent may not have a chance to play their match unless they do it during a stroke play round or opt to skip the stroke play comp.  Sure, I would rather play each round individually, but if that is impossible to do and both sides agree to restrict their options to valid stroke play options, then isn't it better to be able to kill two birds with one stone than have to skip one of events?

[iacas]

By agreeing not to concede putts they have waived a rule of golf and both are disqualified.

MEfree, in case you're wondering, this is an example of your lack of understanding of the Rules, not your "disagreement" with some of the principles.

Not saying that a player should be forced to choose an option that's compatible with match play, especially if they want the round to count for a stroke play event.

What I am saying is that if two match play opponents agree to play by stroke play rules, then what is the harm in allowing them to do so?  Are stroke play rules really so much different and so ill suited to match play?  Aren't both sides faced with the same restricted stroke play options?

Asked and answered.