Overswing and crossing the line at the top

[c peterich]

This might be old news to some,..but maybe new news to others. Been working with a online instructor all summer on my backswing. Transition isn't bad for me,,but problems arise on my setting club at the top. Personally, when I overswing and club head points to 1st base,,I'm screwed. My only option is to pull down steep..which requires some massive rerouting on the way down. If I may help..and if you have this issues..than try taking a 3/4 backswing. The club head itself should be more laid off at the top, pointing to 3 rd or 2 nd base. Now when you transition,,it should be more on a easier manageable plane of approach..no rerouting necessary,, I have a better camera app now, and I'm seeing how having a longer backswing can cause issues,,you can play this way,,but requires a good timing day, Just my 2 cents..hope it helps Overswing is a hard hard habit to break,,this would be a fix we can work on in the winter months without a ball,,

[billchao]

I worked with a golf pro a while back who told me I should feel like 3/4 swings all the time because of my overswing. She said my 3/4 was others' full swing. That being said, I've since learned a thing or two in addition to the "your backswing is too long" line of thinking.

A lot of my overswing (I still have some) had to do simply with improper technique. Not enough extension, my head moved backwards, that kind of stuff. I believe there's a discussion somewhere that had to do with poor turning rates leading to arms lifting up, basically "faking" a full backswing.

I agree it's problematic. I'm just suggesting that there is more to it than simply swing shorter.

[c peterich]

Agree..might be a million reasons for the overswing. But try telling Phil or John daly to swing shorter.,or look at the late Payne Stewart, We are all so unique..but this is one area of the game that does need monitoring.. The backswing

[samgouldengolf]

Try hinging your right wrist back and rolling your left wrist under (knuckles facing the ground at waist high in the take-away).

This will create a square or closed club face but will also keep your left wrist from cupping (what happens when you cross the line).

Try to feel the face staying closed all the way to the top like Zach Johnson or Dustin Johnson. Just feeling a shut face will help to eliminate the longish backswing.

Hope this helps! Happy Golfing!

[c peterich]

Agree.. Counter wound hand pressures.. What pressure u start with, keep for the whole motion. Even works better when u have a neutral grip.. Almost like trapping the twirl.. Nice, a guy that thinks like me.. That will shorten your swing for sure, such an easy way for me to play this goofy game.

[saevel25]

Grip doesn't matter much, it's not a fundamental. A great story is in "The Little Red Book", were his student got whipped by a guy with a weird grip and a funky swing. Infinite number of ways to play golf, but it still comes down to doing a few things right.

Over swinging causes a lot of things, but what causes over swinging is improper turning rates. Meaning if you start your hands early, keeping your legs still (one piece take-away), you can easily over swing because you haven't added the body rotation in yet. Most of the time, amateurs need to speed up the rate in which their hips turn.

Also Over Swinging makes you feel like you have good leverage in the swing when you don't. Basically over-swinging adds weight to the swing because the club head passes parallel, so the club feels heavier at the top. Which makes me think that lighter golf clubs could be a cause for over swinging.

Really parallel at top doesn't mean much. You can have a full turn, little wrist hinge, and be at a good position with the club pointing more vertical. All that matters is proper hip turn and shoulder turn.

[c peterich]

I think trapping the twirl in the right hand is key,, but agree with all the great posts.

[Ernest Jones]

Over swinging causes a lot of things, but what causes over swinging is improper turning rates. Meaning if you start your hands early, keeping your legs still (one piece take-away), you can easily over swing because you haven't added the body rotation in yet. Most of the time, amateurs need to speed up the rate in which their hips turn.

I'm one of the exceptions to that rule. :-) totally had to work hard on slowing my hips down on the backswing, but I can totally accept the fact that I'm an odd ball. Just goes to show there's more than one way to suck at this game! [quote name="c peterich" url="/t/70729/overswing-and-crossing-the-line-at-the-top/0_100#post_912080"]I think trapping the twirl in the right hand is key,, but agree with all the great posts.[/quote] Even more important than pinching the cha-cha with your left thumb and index?? :-P What on earth does trapping the twirl mean??

[saevel25]

Even more important than pinching the cha-cha with your left thumb and index??

What on earth does trapping the twirl mean??

I was hoping someone would take up the cause and go after that. I knew you wouldn't let us down ;)

[c peterich]

I was hoping someone would take up the cause and go after that. I knew you wouldn't let us down ;)

"Trapping the twirl"..goes all the way back to Abe Mitchell,.."down to scratch". ..his book .. Basically it is winding the hands towards the target for the whole swing.( thru grip pressures). He would open the face of the club..grip normal..with face open...than square the face at address. Which would than create a pressure in his hands that would face targetward. His thinkings were a weak grip (hands turned left on the grip) was more powerful than a strong grip ( hands turned right on the grip). The trapping part is the pressure not allowing the face to fan open on the backswing..this was basically made automatic by his grip that he devised back in the 1940's. ( I love the old golf books,,and old swings.. ..lol) .. This was also the premise of the docf program,,, Hope that helps..I love studying different golf theories..and taking ideas that will help me.. This grip idea from Abe did wonders for my iron game and short game Read the book if you can find..an excellent read...in his time, Abe was one of the longest and straightest drivers of his era..he is the molded golfer on top of the Ryder Cup Trophy Ah...found it..you will thank me for this Ernest..good stuff here.. [VIDEO] http://youtu.be/hknEBYGk6i0 [/VIDEO]

[Ernest Jones]

"Trapping the twirl"..goes all the way back to Abe Mitchell,.."down to scratch". ..his book .. Basically it is winding the hands towards the target for the whole swing.( thru grip pressures). He would open the face of the club..grip normal..with face open...than square the face at address. Which would than create a pressure in his hands that would face targetward. His thinkings were a weak grip (hands turned left on the grip) was more powerful than a strong grip ( hands turned right on the grip). The trapping part is the pressure not allowing the face to fan open on the backswing..this was basically made automatic by his grip that he devised back in the 1940's. ( I love the old golf books,,and old swings.. ..lol) .. This was also the premise of the docf program,,, Hope that helps..I love studying different golf theories..and taking ideas that will help me.. This grip idea from Abe did wonders for my iron game and short game Read the book if you can find..an excellent read...in his time, Abe was one of the longest and straightest drivers of his era..he is the molded golfer on top of the Ryder Cup Trophy Ah...found it..you will thank me for this Ernest..good stuff here.. [VIDEO] http://youtu.be/hknEBYGk6i0 [/VIDEO]

Didn't have a chance to view the video yet but let me see if I'm picking up what you're layin' down here... Grip the club with the face open (how much relative to square?) with what I assume would be a relatively strong grip ie: 2 or even 3 knuckles Then rotate everything counter clockwise to square the face to your start line which, I imagine would now create a neutral grip Maintain the perceived hand pressures through the entire swing. Now I don't have a club handy so I can't experiment at the moment but how does this differ from setting up square to your start line with a neutral grip? If someone followed the above procedure and someone else just set up square and neutral what would be the difference between the two? If either of them rotated their hands clockwise they would end up with a strongish grip and an open face and vice versa no? Or is Abe advocated gripping it open with a neutral grip and twisting it to square at address thereby creating a weak grip? I'm interested in understanding more, not sure it fits with my swing but I'd like to understand the concept better regardless. I'll watch the video later when I'm at "work". ;-) FWIW, my club face tends to be pretty square at A2 already. A6 is a little harder to say as I'm generally filming at 120fps which is pretty blurred at A6.

[saevel25]

This grip he is taking, it is a strong grip. Look at how far the left hand is turned over on top of the club. The Right hand might be slightly strong, the V is still pointing towards his left ear, maybe left eye.

[c peterich]

You got it.. Open the face up, maybe 30 degrees. , than grip it normal.. Than counter turn to address.. It locks in the twirl, the twirl is the opening face on the backswing. Swing or chip/ pitch with the hands turning towards the target for the whole swing.. That is the ayers docf program in a nutshell. If it works fine, if not.. Than you learned something new. Feels real powerful to me

[Ernest Jones]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/85370/] [/URL] This grip he is taking, it is a strong grip. Look at how far the left hand is turned over on top of the club. The Right hand might be slightly strong, the V is still pointing towards his left ear, maybe left eye.

Looks like strong left hand and a more or less neutral or even weak right hand. Is this where all the "opposite forces" talk comes from? I've always tried to keep them in sync, I like my left thumb to nestle with the life line of my right palm. Grip is something I need to fix quite often. It gradually shifts up into my palm over the course of a few weeks and I start having swing issues. Once I remember to get it back down into my fingers more I immediately start hitting it better, seems to impact every facet of my swing. I'm going to work the gripping process into my pre-shot routine so I get it right every time. Currently I mostly just think about the alignment of my club face when gripping, need to pay more attention to how I'm applying that top hand as a part of my routine. Holy-Off-Topic-Batman. /highjack.

[c peterich]

I agree.. Way off topic.. :) . If it works, add it... If not scrap it. Your doing great already Ernest.. So just look at it as a possibility. A million ways to play this goofy game we love

[Ernest Jones]

You got it.. Open the face up, maybe 30 degrees. , than grip it normal.. Than counter turn to address.. It locks in the twirl, the twirl is the opening face on the backswing. Swing or chip/ pitch with the hands turning towards the target for the whole swing.. That is the ayers docf program in a nutshell. If it works fine, if not.. Than you learned something new. Feels real powerful to me

I'll play around with it, I enjoy trying different feels on camera and seeing what they do to my motion. I'm quite certain that, based on the experimentation I be done in the past, this feel will cause me to tip out at transition. I'll post back here once I've tried it out, I won't be using that wacky opposite forces grip though.

[c peterich]

[RIGHT][/RIGHT][quote name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/70729/overswing-and-crossing-the-line-at-the-top#post_912305"] I'll play around with it, I enjoy trying different feels on camera and seeing what they do to my motion. I'm quite certain that, based on the experimentation I be done in the past, this feel will cause me to tip out at transition. I'll post back here once I've tried it out, I won't be using that wacky opposite forces grip though.[/quote] Always fun to experiment...if you find it,,,read the book " down to scratch..Abe Mitchell story".. Hard to find, but a good read

[Michael Lee]

The more momentum you can put into the club head, the further (not necessarily up the fairway) the ball will go.

This can be done in one of two ways, make the club head heavier or make it go faster.  The former is set the moment

you buy the club, so it's not a factor per se, but its velocity or swing speed is not only directly proportional to the amount of

force applied to the club, but more importantly how long the force has been applied.

Heavy hitters, like Daly, have long swings, however I'm sure even those guys run into

problems if they go beyond their physical limits.