Thought ball was lost in water - dropped and hit another - then found original ball

[rustyredcab]

What if you are "vitally certain" it went in the water, play as such, and then find the original because your "virtual" certainty was wrong?

[Dormie1360]

Here you go. [URL=http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-26/#d26-1-3.5]http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-26/#d26-1-3.5[/URL]

[ColinL]

What if you are "vitally certain" it went in the water, play as such, and then find the original because your "virtual" certainty was wrong?

You should continue play with the substituted ball.  Provided you had knowledge or virtual certainty that your ball was lost in the hazard, there is no further  penalty for finding the original outside the hazard.

See Decision 26-1/3.5

[mdl]

I've been convinced by people on this forum that you should take VERY LIBERAL provisionals.  Especially if, like me, you tend to play pretty busy public courses where you're basically NEVER going to walk back to the tee and hit another tee shot (as your 3rd stroke), just because of pace of play considerations.

But really, if you think there's any not super close to zero chance you might have lost your ball, it means you didn't hit a great shot off the tee.  Why not take a provisional as a free, legal practice stroke, even if you think there's a 90% chance you'll find your ball?!  Usually, you find your original, but every couple rounds you don't, and then you can actually complete the hole according to the rules, instead of having to do what I sometimes do (though less now than before), and take a mediocre drop and play it sitting 3 to sort of simulate a decent but not great re-teed 3rd shot.

If you do that, then the situation you're talking about works out fine.  I had a situation like that relatively recently.  There was a hard dogleg left par 4 where the high percentage shot was to just hit something like a 3i out to the right.  But I thought I could carry the dog leg and just went for it with the driver.  I hit what felt like a great shot, but we never saw it come down and weren't sure whether I'd made it, so I hit a provisional 3i out to the right.  Then I went up and hit a second shot off my 3i provisional that I chunked and ended up quite short.  I hit yet another shot up onto the green, but then in walking up to the green I found that in fact my original drive had cleared the hazard and gotten up near the green!  Now, since I'd declared the second tee shot as a provisional, and I hadn't played any shots from closer to the green than my original ball lay, I was completely in my rights to take my original tee shot.  I scored a by the rules par!

[Rulesman]

[Asheville]

Good for you, the provisional is a very good strategy for pace of play, however....

"Why not take a provisional as a free, legal practice stroke, even if you think there's a 90% chance you'll find your ball?"

If I was your opponent or fellow-competitor, I might not take kindly to such and would think hard about complaining to the Committee that you had breached Rule 7.

[ColinL]

[Asheville]

Why describe a provisional ball played legitimately because there is a 10% chance your ball is lost as a practice stroke?

He made it sound like he would use the pretense of a provisional to play a practice stroke ... you'd object to that, wouldn't you?

[mdl]

Why describe a provisional ball played legitimately because there is a 10% chance your ball is lost as a practice stroke?

I'm just saying that lots of guys, including myself previously, wouldn't take a provisional if they think they probably can find their ball.  Then on the occasions when you don't find it you just end up playing the hole not according to the rules, taking a penalty stroke or two, cause you're playing a busy public course on the weekend and you're not going to walk back to the tee next to the foursome waiting for you to clear the fairway to re-tee.  It helped me to get into the habit of taking enough provisionals to stop thinking of it as, "I'm gonna find it 9/10 times, why bother with another shot?", and start thinking of it as "9/10 times I get a legal practice stroke, and 10/10 times I get to play the hole by the rules."

@Asheville , I'd say you're wrong.  The rules around when you can take a provisional are pretty loose.  If you hit a tee shot just off the fairway and are just unhappy about not hitting the shot just the way you wanted and take a provisional cause there's some chance you won't find the ball in the 1" rough just off the fairway, then sure, you're pretty much just breaking the rules and taking a practice stroke.  But 10% is a fairly high chance that your ball is gone.  If you hit the ball towards OB or some thick woods and are fairly sure by the line and your experience on the course that you should be able to find it but aren't sure and no one saw where it came down, it's totally legit to take a provisional to ensure you don't have to hold up the course and walk back to the tee in the 10% of times you were wrong and can't find your ball.

[Asheville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColinL

Why describe a provisional ball played legitimately because there is a 10% chance your ball is lost as a practice stroke?

I'm just saying that lots of guys, including myself previously, wouldn't take a provisional if they think they probably can find their ball.  Then on the occasions when you don't find it you just end up playing the hole not according to the rules, taking a penalty stroke or two, cause you're playing a busy public course on the weekend and you're not going to walk back to the tee next to the foursome waiting for you to clear the fairway to re-tee.  It helped me to get into the habit of taking enough provisionals to stop thinking of it as, "I'm gonna find it 9/10 times, why bother with another shot?", and start thinking of it as "9/10 times I get a legal practice stroke, and 10/10 times I get to play the hole by the rules."

@Asheville, I'd say you're wrong.  The rules around when you can take a provisional are pretty loose.  If you hit a tee shot just off the fairway and are just unhappy about not hitting the shot just the way you wanted and take a provisional cause there's some chance you won't find the ball in the 1" rough just off the fairway, then sure, you're pretty much just breaking the rules and taking a practice stroke.  But 10% is a fairly high chance that your ball is gone.  If you hit the ball towards OB or some thick woods and are fairly sure by the line and your experience on the course that you should be able to find it but aren't sure and no one saw where it came down, it's totally legit to take a provisional to ensure you don't have to hold up the course and walk back to the tee in the 10% of times you were wrong and can't find your ball.

I'm well aware of of 27-2 and how it works. You seemed to suggest that you might use as an excuse it to take a practice stroke and call it legal. If I misunderstood your post, then I apologize. The legitimate provisional is a marvelous tool ... I wish more everyday players would use it. At events with skilled amateurs and professionals at which I am in attendance the provisional is well used. So again, if I got the wrong idea from your post, I'm sorry.

[mdl]

I'm well aware of of 27-2 and how it works. You seemed to suggest that you might use as an excuse it to take a practice stroke and call it legal. If I misunderstood your post, then I apologize. The legitimate provisional is a marvelous tool ... I wish more everyday players would use it. At events with skilled amateurs and professionals at which I am in attendance the provisional is well used. So again, if I got the wrong idea from your post, I'm sorry.

Fair enough.  I was just promoting the framing that finally convinced me to take enough provisionals.