Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[Hammer 4]

Sure you were. You have "enough sense"… and so everyone else does not.

But as with swearing, I choose not to be offended. You typed it, and I can give you the benefit of the doubt. But that's what you wrote.

Happy to move on if you are.

Not the way I see it, or intended it to be read that way. Moving on.

[Valleygolfer]

I used swear words after second grade, all the time, but never around my parents. I was lucky to hear the word "shit" out of either one of my parents. At the school play ground it was like I was on a Navy ship...

[iacas]

@iacas I read your post, but I immediately disregarded your Fred Couples example because that must have been in the 90's.

It was a few years ago. It was in HD, and I was living where I live now. I had been running this site for a few years at the time. But even if it was in the 90s why would that matter???

http://thesandtrap.com/t/67650/did-tiger-earn-back-any-of-your-respect/54#post_854635

There's another post in a Fred Couples thread too, by me. That video isn't on YouTube, but I replayed it a few times and it was plain as day.

No reason to ban me over conflicting opinions.

Huh? Where the heck do people get the idea that this ever happens? Geez. If I banned you (or anyone) for posting "conflicting opinions" you wouldn't be here to type this nonsense.

In my opinion, it's rude and selfish.

You're entitled to that. But you must also think 90%+ of the Tour is rude and selfish.

The fact is, you hear Tiger and see him more than other players.

I made a modification that's also a factual statement.

Does that have to do with the fact that the camera is on him more? In my opinion, no.

That's not really an opinion. If someone swears every 25 holes on average, and is covered more frequently, you're going to see them swearing more.

Bottom line, in my opinion, I think Tiger is arrogant and a bit of a pig, which is why I don't like like him as a person.

And others are simply pointing out that to be consistent, you must also dislike about 90% of the PGA Tour, and nearly every other athlete in other major sports.

I don't care that you dislike swearing. Fine. Good for you. You can have your opinion. No problems.

But there seems to be something else at play here. It seems like you dislike Tiger for some other reasons, and pinning it on swearing or spitting is convenient or something. You shrug it off when it's someone else (Freddie, Dufner, Keegan, Watson, etc.). Ernie Els has a video of him throwing his club and nailing his caddie. And there are rumors about how much of a drunk he can be… but you probably like Ernie, yeah? I do too. Good golfer. And I hate robots, and like personality.

Because… guess what: guys on the PGA Tour are male, athletes, have millions of dollars, and act like male athletes with millions of dollars. Way better than an average NFL player, but… still like guys. The Tour is not comprised of 149 saints and Tiger Woods. More like 139 guys who spit and curse and drink and some who still smoke or chew (personally I find chew or smoking way, WAY more disgusting than swearing - cursing never literally killed anyone that I know of), and 11 guys who are boring to be around.

[colin007]

Here's my two cents. Racism is alive and well in this here country. I personally think a lot of the hate and vitriol towards Tiger is because many people don't like him because he's black and successful. Not saying anyone here in particular, just in general. People are racist.

[iacas]

Here's my two cents. Racism is alive and well in this here country. I personally think a lot of the hate and vitriol towards Tiger is because many people don't like him because he's black and successful. Not saying anyone here in particular, just in general. People are racist.

Well, you may be right, you may be wrong, but I will squash that one fairly quickly, as this is in the Golf forum, not the Grill Room section of the site, and tempers flare when that comes up, so… squashed, please.

Let's operate under the assumption that it's not an issue. Thank you.

---

Also, let's remember a few things, everyone (me, you, everyone):

1. We all like golf. We're all "brothers" in that sense.
2. I'd have a beer (well, I might have a mixed drink or a Coke Zero, but you know what I mean) with any of ya, and y'all probably feel similarly about each other.
3. Words don't have tone of voice on the Internet.
4. Let's remember that it's just an opinion, and everyone gets to have one, for whatever reasons they want.

OK? Cool. :)

[Hammer 4]

Well, you may be right, you may be wrong, but I will squash that one fairly quickly, as this is in the Golf forum, not the Grill Room section of the site, and tempers flare when that comes up, so… squashed, please.

Let's operate under the assumption that it's not an issue. Thank you.

Also, let's remember a few things, everyone (me, you, everyone):

We all like golf. We're all "brothers" in that sense.

I'd have a beer (well, I might have a mixed drink or a Coke Zero, but you know what I mean) with any of ya, and y'all probably feel similarly about each other.

Words don't have tone of voice on the Internet.

Let's remember that it's just an opinion, and everyone gets to have one, for whatever reasons they want.

OK? Cool. :)

I can,..live with that... Oh, wait, I don't drink...

[tmac20]

It was a few years ago. It was in HD, and I was living where I live now. I had been running this site for a few years at the time. But even if it was in the 90s why would that matter???

Huh? Where the heck do people get the idea that this ever happens? Geez. If I banned you (or anyone) for posting "conflicting opinions" you wouldn't be here to type this nonsense.

You're entitled to that. But you must also think 90%+ of the Tour is rude and selfish.

I made a modification that's also a factual statement.

That's not really an opinion. If someone swears every 25 holes on average, and is covered more frequently, you're going to see them swearing more.

And others are simply pointing out that to be consistent, you must also dislike about 90% of the PGA Tour, and nearly every other athlete in other major sports.

I don't care that you dislike swearing. Fine. Good for you. You can have your opinion. No problems.

But there seems to be something else at play here. It seems like you dislike Tiger for some other reasons, and pinning it on swearing or spitting is convenient or something. You shrug it off when it's someone else (Freddie, Dufner, Keegan, Watson, etc.). Ernie Els has a video of him throwing his club and nailing his caddie. And there are rumors about how much of a drunk he can be… but you probably like Ernie, yeah? I do too. Good golfer. And I hate robots, and like personality.

Because… guess what: guys on the PGA Tour are male, athletes, have millions of dollars, and act like male athletes with millions of dollars. Way better than an average NFL player, but… still like guys. The Tour is not comprised of 149 saints and Tiger Woods. More like 139 guys who spit and curse and drink and some who still smoke or chew (personally I find chew or smoking way, WAY more disgusting than swearing - cursing never literally killed anyone that I know of), and 11 guys who are boring to be around.

Again, show me some solid evidence of Dufner and Keegan swearing. I have shown numerous examples of Woods' profanity on the course and all you've posted in return is "other players do it too", without any evidence to support your claim. And as I said before, I dislike Woods because he's arrogant. Swearing and spitting is just a part of his arrogance. I don't like his demeanor in interviews either. You can call it nonsense, I call it an opinion. Here's an article that agrees with me . Woods is not the only person I dislike on tour. I'm not a fan of Bradley, Sabbatini or Bubba Watson. Players I like include Kuchar and Snedeker. They both seem like nice guys on and off the course and I appreciate that.

[jbishop15]

[URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1700924-ranking-the-10-most-arrogant-golfers-of-all-time/page/11]Here's an article that agrees with me[/URL]. Woods is not the only person I dislike on tour. I'm not a fan of Bradley, Sabbatini or Bubba Watson. Players I like include Kuchar and Snedeker. They both seem like nice guys on and off the course and I appreciate that.

Kuchar has said he's a pretty big trash talker on the course and that shocks people, fwiw. Quoting Bleacherreport isn't gonna help your cause, dude. They're like the cesspool of internet sports journalism.

[iacas]

Again, show me some solid evidence of Dufner and Keegan swearing.

I heard them. That's all the proof I need. I don't know if there are clips of Dufner or Keegan swearing, but I'm not offended by it, so I'm not going to waste my time searching. It does seem odd to me that anyone would assume the vast majority of PGA Tour players don't swear.

all you've posted in return is "other players do it too", without any evidence to support your claim.

I've got all the evidence I need. You can choose not to believe me, and obviously you weren't standing beside me, but I don't really feel the need to "prove" my case to you. I'm simply pointing out that it seems illogical to assume that a bunch of athletes don't swear.

I dislike Woods because he's arrogant. Swearing and spitting is just a part of his arrogance.

If you say so. Do you dislike Patrick Reed? Do you know why Phil is called FIGJAM? Still feels like there's something more to it, but whatever. It's getting late, and I'm quite a bit behind on the hockey game.

I'm almost curious enough to ask how spitting and swearing are "part of his arrogance," but like I said, I'm too far behind already, so I'm just gonna watch hockey now. :)

I don't like his demeanor in interviews either.  Here's an article that agrees with me.

Linking to people who agree with you is pointless. Seriously, you don't have to leave this thread to find others who share your opinion. Neither do I. I'll stipulate that you can find people who agree with you, and you can stipulate the same for me. It gets us nowhere.

Have a good evening.

[Hammer 4]

O.K., I'm uninformed. Why do they call Phil..Figjam..?

[iacas]

O.K., I'm uninformed. Why do they call Phil..Figjam..?

http://thesandtrap.com/b/pga/player_nicknames

[Hammer 4]

http://thesandtrap.com/b/pga/player_nicknames

Thanks...

[tmac20]

I heard them. That's all the proof I need. I don't know if there are clips of Dufner or Keegan swearing, but I'm not offended by it, so I'm not going to waste my time searching. It does seem odd to me that anyone would assume the vast majority of PGA Tour players don't swear.

I've got all the evidence I need. You can choose not to believe me, and obviously you weren't standing beside me, but I don't really feel the need to "prove" my case to you. I'm simply pointing out that it seems illogical to assume that a bunch of athletes don't swear.

If you say so. Do you dislike Patrick Reed? Do you know why Phil is called FIGJAM? Still feels like there's something more to it, but whatever. It's getting late, and I'm quite a bit behind on the hockey game.

I'm almost curious enough to ask how spitting and swearing are "part of his arrogance," but like I said, I'm too far behind already, so I'm just gonna watch hockey now. :)

Linking to people who agree with you is pointless. Seriously, you don't have to leave this thread to find others who share your opinion. Neither do I. I'll stipulate that you can find people who agree with you, and you can stipulate the same for me. It gets us nowhere.

Have a good evening.

As I stated before, I don't care if they swear, as long as they're sure it's not going to be heard by many spectators or on live TV. If Keegan/Dufner did in fact swear loudly in front of a large audience and not apologize, then my opinion about those two would change. I'm not offended by swearing; I swear all the time in conversations with friends and family, but never in front of strangers, employees, or kids. It's just common sense. You and I might not care, but others might, particularly those who are religious, which is a good percentage of the human population.

[iacas]

As I stated before, I don't care if they swear, as long as they're sure it's not going to be heard by many spectators or on live TV.

Nobody can be sure of that (cameras are rolling all the time in case someone has a hot round, hits an awesome shot, etc.), and you didn't answer the question about how much blame the TV networks bear. They know players swear… and yet they seem to get caught airing curse words every week or two.

I'm not offended by swearing; I swear all the time in conversations with friends and family, but never in front of strangers, employees, or kids. It's just common sense.

I disagree that it's "common sense." Particularly when you're standing 100 yards away from anyone in the middle of the fairway with just your caddie, and a boom mic from 50 yards away picks up your voice. And again, NHL players swear. NFL players. NBA players. The first few rows of fans can often easily hear what players are saying.

I think it's more likely to be "common sense" to assume that if you're a parent, you should prep your kids to expect swearing when you attend an athletic event and you're close enough to hear things. Cuz it happens all the time… even in golf.

I also still don't understand how spitting and cursing is a display of arrogance, but whatever…

[cipher]

I can,..live with that...  Oh, wait, I don't drink...

WFT, you don't drink, you don't swear?  I am supposed to be the goody two shoes around here.  Back the ***k off!

[Hammer 4]

All I can comment on is NBA players. I had season Lakers seats back in the early 90's 3 rows from the floor. I always took my then teenage Son to the games, as he was a HUGE B ball fan. With the language that the players and others used, I requested seats that were further away, which we got, so yeah, it's just not golfers.

[Hammer 4]

WFT, you don't drink, you don't swear?  I am supposed to be the goody two shoes around here.  Back the ***k off!

I would address the above, but I doubt all of you would want to be Bored with the length and contents of what I'd have to say. I will say this, I do swear now and then. as for drinking, I did so a long time ago, I stopped. My whole family were alcoholics read..Were, all have died

to over drinking, I've had good friends Killed by drunk drivers, nuff said.

[tmac20]

Nobody can be sure of that (cameras are rolling all the time in case someone has a hot round, hits an awesome shot, etc.), and you didn't answer the question about how much blame the TV networks bear. They know players swear… and yet they seem to get caught airing curse words every week or two.

I disagree that it's "common sense." Particularly when you're standing 100 yards away from anyone in the middle of the fairway with just your caddie, and a boom mic from 50 yards away picks up your voice. And again, NHL players swear. NFL players. NBA players. The first few rows of fans can often easily hear what players are saying.

I think it's more likely to be "common sense" to assume that if you're a parent, you should prep your kids to expect swearing when you attend an athletic event and you're close enough to hear things. Cuz it happens all the time… even in golf.

I also still don't understand how spitting and cursing is a display of arrogance, but whatever…

I agree with your first point that TV networks are partially to blame, although it's kinda hard to get a good shot with audio and make sure that you don't get any audio from the player.

And as for your second point, I agree that you should prepare your kids for swearing at hockey, football, baseball, and basketball games if you're close to the front row, because it's expected out of those athletes, but at a golf event? I disagree. Golf is not nearly as physically intense as those other sports, and you should expect the players to be civil human beings. You can't say that this is acceptable:

Here's an example of a hockey player that was likely frustrated as he just got a penalty, but look what he did in the penalty box: