Patrick Reed - Is he arrogant?

[Golfingdad]

I'm going to agree with what some of the other pro golfers said in later interviews.  A few players mentioned that the course was REALLY tough and people were severely penalized even when they made great shots.  There were comments that on this course luck was much more of a factor than at other courses.  You could hit a perfect shot two feet from the pin and still roll right in the water and drop 2 shots because of it.  How many players made good shots and actually hit the green and ended up in the water when on a reasonable course it most likely would have ended in a birdie?

Now go back and think about some of the not so good shots that hit the outer edge of the green and ended with a 2 put par. Now factor in that Reed only won by 1 shot and I would have to agree with the other pro golfers.  Luck had too much impact on this course. I know that somebody is gonna say that they all had to play the same course and that is absolutely true.  However, I saw too many really good shots that ended in double, triple and quadruple bogeys. Hell some guys had 8s, 9s,10s.  Didn't somebody actually have an 11?  That is utterly ridiculous to design a green that penalizes good shots like that.

I watched the entire thing and people say Reed made some great shots.  He did, but there were some guys that made BETTER shots that got royally screwed.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that on a course with reasonably designed slopes on the greens Reed would not have won against THAT field.  That is my opinion and I am allowed to have one.

I watched quite a bit of the coverage on Friday through Sunday, and have since read some follow-up articles, and did not get even close to the same vibe from the course as you got.  I know a few guys complained about the greens being tough, but I didn't hear anybody say that they were unfair.  And I did see one shot (one shot total) that might fall into the "unfair" category, and that was Dustin Johnson on Friday at 15 (when the winds were ridiculous).  He hit a draw, rode the right to left wind, and landed his ball in the center of the green, only to have it scurry off into the water.  Of course, Matt Kuchar followed it with a better shot that was rewarded by cozying up to about 3 feet from the hole ... so it's not as if the hole was unplayable.

And once the wind died down on Saturday and Sunday, nobody seemed to be complaining or having much trouble that wasn't self-imposed.

The only ridiculously lucky break I remember, is Tiger Woods bouncing it off some dudes noggin into the center of the fairway (on 4 on Sunday) and he promptly "capitalized" by dumping his next shot into the lake.

Whether you want to believe it or not, Reed simply played better than everybody else.

I agree with this.

I do not.

[BENtSwing]

Just heard the announcers during the first round of the  Valspar talking about the "confident" Patrick Reed...then they started sarcastically saying that they were top 5 announcers LOL. Pretty funny.

[RightEdge]

I watched quite a bit of the coverage on Friday through Sunday, and have since read some follow-up articles, and did not get even close to the same vibe from the course as you got.  I know a few guys complained about the greens being tough, but I didn't hear anybody say that they were unfair.  And I did see one shot (one shot total) that might fall into the "unfair" category, and that was Dustin Johnson on Friday at 15 (when the winds were ridiculous).  He hit a draw, rode the right to left wind, and landed his ball in the center of the green, only to have it scurry off into the water.  Of course, Matt Kuchar followed it with a better shot that was rewarded by cozying up to about 3 feet from the hole ... so it's not as if the hole was unplayable.

And once the wind died down on Saturday and Sunday, nobody seemed to be complaining or having much trouble that wasn't self-imposed.

The only ridiculously lucky break I remember, is Tiger Woods bouncing it off some dudes noggin into the center of the fairway (on 4 on Sunday) and he promptly "capitalized" by dumping his next shot into the lake.

Whether you want to believe it or not, Reed simply played better than everybody else.

I do not.

What I saw was a couple 9 irons hitting the green and rolling clean off into the water.  Not to mention countless other shots that hit the green and rolled off into the water.  Did you not hear the total number of balls that were recorded in the water?  All of them were not hit directly in the water, they were rolling off greens and it was especially bad because the grass outside the greens were not mature and it rolled through that too directly down a steep hill into the drink.

I watched the entire match beginning to end and even watched it again because I recorded it.  There were a LOT of really good shots that resulted in bogeys or worse.  When do you ever hear about MULTIPLE pros making 5s,6s,7s,8s,9s,10s and a freaking 11! Yes an 11!  To me that kinda says it all. You said the players didn't complain? One player said the course setup was sh#$. Another said it was borderline unplayable and there were some other comments.  But I'm not even basing it on what they said.  I saw shots hitting greens and ending up in the water.

But you have your opinion just like I have mine so we will just agree to disagree.  And I think Reed played well but I also think he had a lot of help from that course.  I think luck played too big a part but that's just my opinion.

[RightEdge]

Just heard the announcers during the first round of the  Valspar talking about the "confident" Patrick Reed...then they started sarcastically saying that they were top 5 announcers LOL. Pretty funny.

Yea I heard them say that too.  It was funny.  Reed better play like a golf god this year because if he doesn't back up what he said they are gonna crucify him on the air. If he misses the cut at the next event it will be brutal.  The younger generation has the new confident attitude with the borderline arrogant attitude but the old school guys don't like it and unfortunately for him, the old guys are the one who have the announcer jobs.

[jbishop15]

Yea I heard them say that too.  It was funny.  Reed better play like a golf god this year because if he doesn't back up what he said they are gonna crucify him on the air. If he misses the cut at the next event it will be brutal.  The younger generation has the new confident attitude with the borderline arrogant attitude but the old school guys don't like it and unfortunately for him, the old guys are the one who have the announcer jobs.

The old school guys were just as arrogant. Read some of Snead's stuff, Hogan's stuff, especially Miller's stuff. They all believed they were the best and weren't afraid to say it.

With less media coverage, the older guys got away with it more. Same in politics; you hear people wax nostalgically about our political past, but it was much worse that it is now.

[RightEdge]

The old school guys were just as arrogant. Read some of Snead's stuff, Hogan's stuff, especially Miller's stuff. They all believed they were the best and weren't afraid to say it.

With less media coverage, the older guys got away with it more. Same in politics; you hear people wax nostalgically about our political past, but it was much worse that it is now.

I'm sure the old school guys were arrogant but that doesn't change the fact they they run the airwaves now and they are gonna burn him big time on the air if he doesn't win again.

[mp33 man]

What I saw was a couple 9 irons hitting the green and rolling clean off into the water.  Not to mention countless other shots that hit the green and rolled off into the water.  Did you not hear the total number of balls that were recorded in the water?  All of them were not hit directly in the water, they were rolling off greens and it was especially bad because the grass outside the greens were not mature and it rolled through that too directly down a steep hill into the drink. I watched the entire match beginning to end and even watched it again because I recorded it.  There were a LOT of really good shots that resulted in bogeys or worse.  When do you ever hear about MULTIPLE pros making 5s,6s,7s,8s,9s,10s and a freaking 11! Yes an 11!  To me that kinda says it all. You said the players didn't complain? One player said the course setup was sh#$. Another said it was borderline unplayable and there were some other comments.  But I'm not even basing it on what they said.  I saw shots hitting greens and ending up in the water.  But you have your opinion just like I have mine so we will just agree to disagree.  And I think Reed played well but I also think he had a lot of help from that course.  I think luck played too big a part but that's just my opinion.

I think its funny how the same course that was so unfair to every other golfer was so kind to Reed... An opinion is just that but just because its an opinion doesn't change the fact that's its idiotic.

[RightEdge]

The old school guys were just as arrogant. Read some of Snead's stuff, Hogan's stuff, especially Miller's stuff. They all believed they were the best and weren't afraid to say it.

With less media coverage, the older guys got away with it more. Same in politics; you hear people wax nostalgically about our political past, but it was much worse that it is now.

And for the record I do agree with you somewhat.  This is also like the situation where everybody keeps saying Tiger will never be the champion that Jack was because he is a cheater and lacks character blah blah blah BS.  I'm a man, I hang around men and I know what men will do if given half a chance. Those guys back in those days I would be willing to bet, cheated just as much as Tiger did.  There is no proof of course but then again there wasn't a camera stuck in their faces every ten seconds either. These same older guys were publicly crucifying Tiger when half of them are on their second or third wives. And I bet they didn't get divorced because they "grew apart" either. lol

[RightEdge]

I think its funny how the same course that was so unfair to every other golfer was so kind to Reed...

An opinion is just that but just because its an opinion doesn't change the fact that's its idiotic.

See this is why people get pissed when trying to have adult discussions. People like you who can't have a normal debate without resisting the urge to start throwing insults, always feel the need to be big, bad and confrontational sitting behind a keyboard.

[mp33 man]

See this is why people get pissed when trying to have adult discussions. People like you who can't have a normal debate without resisting the urge to start throwing insults, always feel the need to be big, bad and confrontational sitting behind a keyboard.

Nope, not trying to be big, bad or confrontational. Just calling it how I see it. Your opinion was not based on facts, logic or even rational... The course treated everyone the same, some just hit better shots. Even if a shot is only better by an inch or two its still better and that doesn't even mean that the other shot wasn't good it just means that one was better. When you start to add up those better shots over the course of four rounds you end up with a winner. I think I'll name that post "The Game of Golf".

[BENtSwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENtSwing32

Just heard the announcers during the first round of the  Valspar talking about the "confident" Patrick Reed...then they started sarcastically saying that they were top 5 announcers LOL. Pretty funny.

Yea I heard them say that too.  It was funny.  Reed better play like a golf god this year because if he doesn't back up what he said they are gonna crucify him on the air. If he misses the cut at the next event it will be brutal.  The younger generation has the new confident attitude with the borderline arrogant attitude but the old school guys don't like it and unfortunately for him, the old guys are the one who have the announcer jobs.

Eventually he'll have a bad showing, and yeah, it will be funny to hear what they say. I'm sure he has thick skin...or a mommy who will keep telling him he's number 1.

I cannot wait until a younger generation starts commentating. Most of these guys, except Feherety and Notah, are so dull and seem like their brains are fried. What's up w that one guy that always say, "mmmkay," after someone is cleaning up a 2 footer? What does that even mean? I've been muting most of it lately.

[RightEdge]

Nope, not trying to be big, bad or confrontational. Just calling it how I see it.

Your opinion was not based on facts, logic or even rational... The course treated everyone the same, some just hit better shots. Even if a shot is only better by an inch or two its still better and that doesn't even mean that the other shot wasn't good it just means that one was better. When you start to add up those better shots over the course of four rounds you end up with a winner.

I think I'll name that post "The Game of Golf".

People like you really get under my skin.  Nobody's opinion is rational or logical except yours.  Go start an internet fight with someone else.  And oh yea by the way, I guess the other gentleman that agreed with my post is an idiot too right?

[Golfingdad]

People like you really get under my skin.  Nobody's opinion is rational or logical except yours.  Go start an internet fight with someone else.  And oh yea by the way, I guess the other gentleman that agreed with my post is an idiot too right?

He didn't call you an idiot, he said that one particular opinion was idiotic. Further, he explained why ... And he has a good point. Your opinion on this makes little sense. Nobody's saying you can't have it, but we're just saying it's wrong.

[Hammer 4]

.

[newtogolf]

I watched quite a bit of the coverage on Friday through Sunday, and have since read some follow-up articles, and did not get even close to the same vibe from the course as you got.  I know a few guys complained about the greens being tough, but I didn't hear anybody say that they were unfair.  And I did see one shot (one shot total) that might fall into the "unfair" category, and that was Dustin Johnson on Friday at 15 (when the winds were ridiculous).  He hit a draw, rode the right to left wind, and landed his ball in the center of the green, only to have it scurry off into the water.  Of course, Matt Kuchar followed it with a better shot that was rewarded by cozying up to about 3 feet from the hole ... so it's not as if the hole was unplayable.

And once the wind died down on Saturday and Sunday, nobody seemed to be complaining or having much trouble that wasn't self-imposed.

The only ridiculously lucky break I remember, is Tiger Woods bouncing it off some dudes noggin into the center of the fairway (on 4 on Sunday) and he promptly "capitalized" by dumping his next shot into the lake.

Whether you want to believe it or not, Reed simply played better than everybody else.

I do not.

I watched almost the entire 4 days and the course was very penal, especially on Friday.  The biggest issue was the rough wasn't high enough to stop balls that rolled off the elevated greens from rolling right into the water.  They also mentioned quite often that the new greens were very hard due to the excellent drainage and as a result balls that would typically hold the greens weren't.

They all played the same course, but some were more penalized by the wind than others.  Fact is Reed put the best four days of golf together and deservedly won.  It was a great win against a tough field no one can take that away from him.

[saevel25]

I watched almost the entire 4 days and the course was very penal, especially on Friday.  The biggest issue was the rough wasn't high enough to stop balls that rolled off the elevated greens from rolling right into the water.  They also mentioned quite often that the new greens were very hard due to the excellent drainage and as a result balls that would typically hold the greens weren't.

They all played the same course, but some were more penalized by the wind than others.  Fact is Reed put the best four days of golf together and deservedly won.  It was a great win against a tough field no one can take that away from him.

Yea I saw one shot were the ball landed between the hole and the water. It landed pin high about 4 feet from the pin. It bounced off the green into the water.

The course is pretty new, and the grass hasn't gotten thick enough to help tame the water hazards. Really if you think about it in terms of effective playing area, the course is very very tight right now because you can't get with in 10-15 yards of the water or it is a penalty.

It would be interesting to see how the course plays next year.

[newtogolf]

Yea I saw one shot were the ball landed between the hole and the water. It landed pin high about 4 feet from the pin. It bounced off the green into the water.

The course is pretty new, and the grass hasn't gotten thick enough to help tame the water hazards. Really if you think about it in terms of effective playing area, the course is very very tight right now because you can't get with in 10-15 yards of the water or it is a penalty.

It would be interesting to see how the course plays next year.

It will be, I like the course.  Trump can be a bit of a wind bag but he really seems to love golf and wants to develop courses that are challenging and fit the terrain and land they are built on.  I read last night that they may consider Trump Doral as a location for the rescheduled PGA Championship the year of the Olympics.

[Spyder]

lol I'm not sure I'm understanding the fresh debate of how Reed won. Is that even a valid question? I can't recall winning anything when I didn't do better than my competition.

Basketball? I beat you 10 to 6, but you clearly played better than me because you shot 6-6. Tough break!

Baseball? The Indians beat the Yankees 9-7, but the Yankees definitely played a better game because they had more hits.

Football? The Browns lost 9-31, but they definitely had the better offense because they had more offensive yards.

The point is, the winner of any sport won because their performance was superior to those playing against them. Don't take anything away from a winner on the PGA Tour by trying to twist his win into a senseless of debate over whether X player played better, or if the field simply played bad which resulted in X player winning.

Reed won because his performance during the total course of 4 days was superior and better than his opponents' performances.