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Jman32

ballspeed vs spin vs launch vs SS

12 posts in this topic

Hi Guys

i am a new member, but not to golf.  i am in my late 30's and been playing for 25 years.  i have been as low as an 8, i have not been playing much for 2 years and probably around a 14-16.

i just spent a bunch of time hitting my driver (as well as other clubs) on a launch monitor with the following results:

Club: 9* Ping I15 stiff stock ping shaft

Swing speed: 105-108

ball speed: 142-149

spin: 2400 +/-600

launch 13-18*

when i hit what i felt was a solid shot with a SS of 108, low spin (around 1900) with good launch, my ball speed did not go over 149mph.  the longest drive i hit was 276 carry and roll, with most in the 260's

i quickly demoed a few newer drivers and i could not break 150 mph ball speed on Covert 2.0 tour, SLDR 460 tp, or adams xtd.

my smash factor was in the 1.35 -1.40.

assuming a reasonable smash factor of 1.43-1.48 i should have had a 154-160mph ball speed.

i was using the balls provided by PGA superstore (they did not want me to use my own).  there was no brand, just black lines which might be needed for the monitor.

do you guys think it is ball based, poor ball striking, or a bad club to swing fit?

thanks in advanced

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Welcome to the site.  Did the ball look beat up?  Do you have comparable numbers from another fitting?

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The balls were clean, but they did not have a premium ball pattern. For drivers it should not matter too much. Don't have other numbers to compare to. This was my first real session on one
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pretty solid.  i was around the center, some a drop higher on the face, some a little toward the toe, but still getting "good wood" on the ball.  i can say i really didn't "nut" or "destroy" the ball dead center.

when i am swinging well on the course i can get to 280-300 range.  i very rarely get over 300

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pretty solid.  i was around the center, some a drop higher on the face, some a little toward the toe, but still getting "good wood" on the ball.  i can say i really didn't "nut" or "destroy" the ball dead center.

when i am swinging well on the course i can get to 280-300 range.  i very rarely get over 300

Honestly the spin looks very low for a miss hit. Not entirely sure. What was the machine used to fit you?

I could see it not picking up the club head. Meaning its just back tracking through an equation to get the club head speed. I would say the ball speed is more accurate. Usually most launch monitors are designed to pick up the ball as its primary function. Which means if you hit that solid, your club head speed would be around 100 mph, not 105 to 108. This might confirm why the other clubs didn't go as far. Maybe you were catching those poorly. So you get 100 mph ball speed, and then poor contact, so you wouldn't get much distance as with your ping driver.

Oh on a side note, just worry about carry distance. Roll doesn't matter because it varies greatly. I've had roll that ranges from -1 yard (yes I have backed up a driver) to 40+ yards. As long as my carry is consistent, that is all I can ask for. When I go into a fitting. I look for

Ball Speed

Spin Rate

Horizontal launch angle

Vertical Launch Angle

Peak Height

That's all. The rest, I don't care about.

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Honestly the spin looks very low for a miss hit. Not entirely sure. What was the machine used to fit you?

I could see it not picking up the club head. Meaning its just back tracking through an equation to get the club head speed. I would say the ball speed is more accurate. Usually most launch monitors are designed to pick up the ball as its primary function. Which means if you hit that solid, your club head speed would be around 100 mph, not 105 to 108. This might confirm why the other clubs didn't go as far. Maybe you were catching those poorly. So you get 100 mph ball speed, and then poor contact, so you wouldn't get much distance as with your ping driver.

Oh on a side note, just worry about carry distance. Roll doesn't matter because it varies greatly. I've had roll that ranges from -1 yard (yes I have backed up a driver) to 40+ yards. As long as my carry is consistent, that is all I can ask for. When I go into a fitting. I look for

Ball Speed

Spin Rate

Horizontal launch angle

Vertical Launch Angle

Peak Height

That's all. The rest, I don't care about.

So you smash factor, or more accurately, how efficiently you are hitting the ball - doesn't matter? From my experience, smash factor on drivers is the #1 indicator on whether or not the driver/shaft is a good "fit". Without it, the rest of the numbers are meaningless or at best not a true depiction of what is going on. Personally, I'd put spin at the bottom of the list. Oh - and if it's not a doppler tracking device, I wouldn't have any faith in the data anyway. Don't get me started on LM's in stores.....

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Not really for me. Unless you are WAY off on club weighting or the shaft bend profile compared to your swing. Sometimes you might get someone who gets into trouble when they go between different length clubs. Usually they can fix that up shortly just by hitting a few shots to get the feel for how long the club is. Really a person's smash factor will be very similar for every shot. You'd be surprised how consistent high handicap players are, they are just consistently bad.

You wont see a dramatic increase in smash factor just by a good fitting. A bad player is going to swing every club bad. That means bad smash factor.

That also begs the question, should a bad golfer even get fitted. I think so. If they are a person who is going to improve, then honestly they might be switching clubs later on in their development. If a person just is a casual player, then the clubs can help them eliminate some mistakes. That doesn't mean they are going to go from 1.35 to 1.48 smash factor. Just means those mishits are not going to hurt them as much.

So really as a fitter someone should be having a good idea of what the player is looking for.

For driver fitting. Its pretty much, vertical launch, backspin, and ball speed. If you can get a high handicapper to average a decent launch condition. Given his numbers will fluctuate more because he is miss hitting the ball more often, but it does help them out  in the long run. It wont improve his smash factor though.

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i was in a brand new PGA superstore, they have aboutGolf 3track.

my longest carry was mid 260's; with most in the 250's range.

i was not their for a fitting, i was their to practice my swing.  i did try some other drivers out of curiosity.

i was also hitting my sonartec 25* hybrid.  the system said my SS was 95mph and carrying 210-220.

the more i think about it, it probably is me and not the monitor.  SHOCKING!

i guess i will need to put in more work and fine tune my game.

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Not really for me. Unless you are WAY off on club weighting or the shaft bend profile compared to your swing. Sometimes you might get someone who gets into trouble when they go between different length clubs. Usually they can fix that up shortly just by hitting a few shots to get the feel for how long the club is. Really a person's smash factor will be very similar for every shot. You'd be surprised how consistent high handicap players are, they are just consistently bad.

You wont see a dramatic increase in smash factor just by a good fitting. A bad player is going to swing every club bad. That means bad smash factor.

That also begs the question, should a bad golfer even get fitted. I think so. If they are a person who is going to improve, then honestly they might be switching clubs later on in their development. If a person just is a casual player, then the clubs can help them eliminate some mistakes. That doesn't mean they are going to go from 1.35 to 1.48 smash factor. Just means those mishits are not going to hurt them as much.

So really as a fitter someone should be having a good idea of what the player is looking for.

For driver fitting. Its pretty much, vertical launch, backspin, and ball speed. If you can get a high handicapper to average a decent launch condition. Given his numbers will fluctuate more because he is miss hitting the ball more often, but it does help them out  in the long run. It wont improve his smash factor though.

I would have to respectfully disagree. What about length? What about loft? I've seen enough Trackman readings to know this to be the case - most handicap golfers could get better results simply by switching to a shorter than standard shaft and changing to more loft. The numbers go up simply because they are easier to control. Sure, you might get the odd solid hit from a 45"+ driver which seems to be the norm these days, but overall control suffers as a result. The problem is, the customer (and the OEM) only sees the one good shot that goes further. You're right that higher handicappers are consistently bad, but a lot of that is probably down to their own ignorance rather than poor technique, mainly because nobody really takes into account getting fitted for length FIRST for a driver, then weight, then bend profile, then flex. Only when you are consistently above 1.45 average smash factor (whatever your handicap) can you be considered to be correctly fit for a driver.

To the OP - I noticed that you were using a 9* Ping i15 - not really the easiest driver in the world to use IMO and even some better players struggle with it. I would really advise a proper fitting session with a certified pro who could help to connect you with a driver more suited to your ability, swing and needs. FWIW, this is probably not going to be inside a golf superstore or on a golf forum full of anecdotal evidence, conjecture and guesswork either. Just my opinion.

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Smash factor decreases as spin loft increases. You could have been hitting down a fair bit too. What was your AoA?

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i just spent a bunch of time hitting my driver (as well as other clubs) on a launch monitor with the following results:

Club: 9* Ping I15 stiff stock ping shaft

Swing speed: 105-108

ball speed: 142-149

spin: 2400 +/-600

launch 13-18*

when i hit what i felt was a solid shot with a SS of 108, low spin (around 1900) with good launch, my ball speed did not go over 149mph.  the longest drive i hit was 276 carry and roll, with most in the 260's

my smash factor was in the 1.35 -1.40.

assuming a reasonable smash factor of 1.43-1.48 i should have had a 154-160mph ball speed.

do you guys think it is ball based, poor ball striking, or a bad club to swing fit?

Likely the ball. I would be careful about "assuming a reasonable smash factor of 1.43-1.48 i should have had a 154-160mph ball speed." This is a bit like saying "assuming I get 30 miles per gallon, I should have been able to go 30 miles on that gallon of gas." I understand what you are trying to say - assuming I was hitting a normal driver and not a marshmallow ... shouldn't the ball have been coming off the clubface faster. Which is why I say it may have been the ball. But don't get too caught up in these numbers. They are there to help you compare clubs, not to give you anything absolute about your swing. Given that the numbers were fairly consistent for swing and ball speed. Either the ball is off or how it is measuring the ball speed is off slightly. Don't worry about it.

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