Is it time to abandon Amateur and Professional status classifications?

[Pave]

So who's going to represent USA for golf at the Olympics? An Amateur, A Professional or a Golfer?

What about all the young amateur guys following a path to becoming a great golfer? You don't think they should be able to receive payment if they're good enough? So golf should stay as it is, all the top players come through a system which is largely built upon having wealthy parents to support the up and coming golfers of tomorrow? Please don't distort the last statement, I'm talking top level amateurs, Lydia Ko comes to mind pre turning pro.

I can't believe that guys wouldn't want to compete against Bubba Watson playing off +7.7 in their local league.

I will concede that the debate is geographically subjective, due to established forms of golf.

[MS256]

So who's going to represent USA for golf at the Olympics? An Amateur, A Professional or a Golfer?

What about all the young amateur guys following a path to becoming a great golfer? You don't think they should be able to receive payment if they're good enough? So golf should stay as it is, all the top players come through a system which is largely built upon having wealthy parents to support the up and coming golfers of tomorrow? Please don't distort the last statement, I'm talking top level amateurs, Lydia Ko comes to mind pre turning pro.

I can't believe that guys wouldn't want to compete against Bubba Watson playing off +7.7 in their local league.

I will concede that the debate is geographically subjective, due to established forms of golf.

I didn't know Bubba was looking for a local league to play in.

Of course I would like to compete with Bubba Watson or any of the players on Tour. Problem is that I doubt seriously if he would have any interest in watching us hack the ball around.

Hell I would even play him straight up match play for $1 a hole...Wouldn't be the first time I lost $18...And I figure I might even win a few holes.

[David in FL]

:-D  I didn't know Bubba was looking for a local league to play in. Of course I would like to compete with Bubba Watson or any of the players on Tour. Problem is that I doubt seriously if he would have any interest in watching us hack the ball around. Hell I would even play him straight up match play for $1 a hole...Wouldn't be the first time I lost $18... And I figure I might even win a few holes .

Yeah. That's what I was thinking w hen I played with GMAC too...... :8)

[MS256]

Yeah. That's what I was thinking w hen I played with GMAC too......

At least you got to try.

I'm sticking with owing him $15.

[David in FL]

At least you got to try. :beer:   I'm sticking with owing him $15.

Had to check the card..... Straight up, he won 14 holes and we pushed 4. Woulda owed him $14. Hell, I lose a lot more than that to my buddies on any given Sunday! :-)

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pave

So who's going to represent USA for golf at the Olympics? An Amateur, A Professional or a Golfer?

The criteria have already been established: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics#Qualification .

Quote:

Qualification will be based on world ranking as of July 11, 2016, with a total of 60 players qualifying in each of the men's and women's events. ^[7] The top 15 players of each gender will qualify, with a limit of four golfers per country that can qualify this way. ^[8] The remaining 45 spots will go the highest-ranked players from countries that do not already have two golfers qualified. ^[9]

So…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pave

What about all the young amateur guys following a path to becoming a great golfer? You don't think they should be able to receive payment if they're good enough?

No. Why should they? They're choosing to stay an amateur. If they want to become pro, they simply have to declare that they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pave

I can't believe that guys wouldn't want to compete against Bubba Watson playing off +7.7 in their local league.

I think the more pertinent issue is that Bubba wouldn't want to compete against a bunch of ams in a local league.

I'll say this again: nothing is stopping Bubba from dropping in on a local league and using his handicap - or negotiating one - to play.

[Pave]

The criteria have already been established: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics#Qualification .

That pretty much sums up as to why I started the thread. At the Olympics a Golf Pro may compete whereas a Pro Boxer can't!

The lines between amateur and professional are continually being blurred.

Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

[big stoke]

That pretty much sums up as to why I started the thread. At the Olympics a Golf Pro may compete whereas a Pro Boxer can't!  The lines between amateur and professional are continually being blurred. Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

Other sports allow pros to play in the Olympics, basketball and hockey come to mind. And I got paid to help train kids at football camps my college team held.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

The criteria have already been established: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics#Qualification .

That pretty much sums up as to why I started the thread. At the Olympics a Golf Pro may compete whereas a Pro Boxer can't!

The lines between amateur and professional are continually being blurred.

Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

Why are you so passionate about this?  What does it matter to you?  Golf is really the only game where amateurs play by the same rules and on the same playing field as professionals (Maybe tennis? I don't follow the sport so I don't know).  We like that and we like the distinction between the two.  I'm not sure why anyone would push so hard to eliminate the partition.  If we so choose, we can compete head to head using handicaps without making any changes to the current system.  That seems quite equitable to me.

By having minimal prizes allowed, it keeps amateur tournaments on a friendlier level too.  Not many players are going to go to extremes to get a $200 gift credit in the pro shop.  That could change if amateurs were allowed to compete for large purses.  There is enough sandbagging even at silly little charity scrambles - no sense encouraging those idiots.

[iacas]

Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

Yes. I know the rules. They're pretty specific about when that can occur: [quote]5-1. General Except as provided in the Rules, an amateur golfer must not receive payment or compensation, directly or indirectly, for giving golf instruction. 5-2. Where Payment Permitted a. Schools, Colleges, Camps, etc. An amateur golfer who is (i) an employee of an educational institution or system or (ii) a counselor at a camp or other similar organized program, may receive payment or compensation for golf instruction to students in the institution, system or camp, provided that the total time devoted to such instruction comprises less than 50 percent of the time spent in the performance of all duties as such an employee or counselor. b. Approved Programs An amateur golfer may receive expenses, payment or compensation for giving golf instruction as part of a program that has been approved in advance by the Governing Body. 5-3. Instruction In Writing An amateur golfer may receive payment or compensation for golf instruction in writing, provided his ability or reputation as a golfer was not a major factor in his employment or in the commission or sale of his work.[/quote]

[Pave]

Why are you so passionate about this?  What does it matter to you?  Golf is really the only game where amateurs play by the same rules and on the same playing field as professionals (Maybe tennis? I don't follow the sport so I don't know).  We like that and we like the distinction between the two.  I'm not sure why anyone would push so hard to eliminate the partition.  If we so choose, we can compete head to head using handicaps without making any changes to the current system.  That seems quite equitable to me.

By having minimal prizes allowed, it keeps amateur tournaments on a friendlier level too.  Not many players are going to go to extremes to get a $200 gift credit in the pro shop.  That could change if amateurs were allowed to compete for large purses.  There is enough sandbagging even at silly little charity scrambles - no sense encouraging those idiots.

The question has been raised many times in the circles in which I conduct business, the issue itself is not what I'm passionate about, understanding all points of view in regard to the future of golf is what I'm passionate about.

[MS256]

The question has been raised many times in the circles in which I conduct business, the issue itself is not what I'm passionate about, understanding all points of view in regard to the future of golf is what I'm passionate about.

Then what are the benefits? So far we have the "Olympics" (which haven't been amateur in a long time), economic status of golfers (which isn't changing because an occasional amateur wins a purse), and that we should want to play with Bubba Watson (which I would do right now if I knew him and he wanted to play). The golf pro at the local country club already plays in the choose up games, as do a couple of guys that are on and off of the Mini-Tours and the Dot Com Tour (when they are at home). "I don't get it Big Dan." ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZocpwWLsyE

[Asheville]

Pave, let me guess, you're Irish?

[RickK]

Nope.  I think the fact that golf has matured is why we leave this alone.  It is fine just the way it is today.

[boogielicious]

That pretty much sums up as to why I started the thread. At the Olympics a Golf Pro may compete whereas a Pro Boxer can't!

The lines between amateur and professional are continually being blurred.

Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

Boxing has chosen to keep their Olympic athletes as amateurs.  It is their choice.  Track & Field athletes are professionals as are most of the other Olympic sports because their governing bodies have chosen to allow professionals to compete.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pave

That pretty much sums up as to why I started the thread. At the Olympics a Golf Pro may compete whereas a Pro Boxer can't!

The lines between amateur and professional are continually being blurred.

Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

Boxing has chosen to keep their Olympic athletes as amateurs.  It is their choice.  Track & Field athletes are professionals as are most of the other Olympic sports because their governing bodies have chosen to allow professionals to compete.

There are significant differences between amateur and professional boxing, which may account for some incompatibility there.  There is also the seamier side of professional boxing that may make the Olympic committee a bit leery of it.

[MS256]

There are significant differences between amateur and professional boxing, which may account for some incompatibility there.  There is also the seamier side of professional boxing that may make the Olympic committee a bit leery of it.

^^^Yep.

There are huge differences between professional and Olympic boxing. It's really not even the same game.

A world champion in professional boxing that wears opponents down and knocks them out in the late rounds might not be very well suited at all for the Olympic format. More often than not Olympic boxing is based on speed scoring, with power and endurance much less in play.

[Finn725]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pave

Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

This is false - Rule 5-1 under amateur status specifically states so, 5-2 shows exceptions, which isn't as black and white as you suggest it to be.

5-1. General

Except as provided in the Rules , an amateur golfer must not receive payment or compensation, directly or indirectly, for giving golf instruction.

5-2. Where Payment Permitted

a. Schools, Colleges, Camps, etc.

An amateur golfer who is (i) an employee of an educational institution or system or (ii) a counselor at a camp or other similar organized program, may receive payment or compensation for golf instruction to students in the institution, system or camp, provided that the total time devoted to such instruction comprises less than 50 percent of the time spent in the performance of all duties as such an employee or counselor.

b. Approved Programs

An amateur golfer may receive expenses, payment or compensation for giving golf instruction as part of a program that has been approved in advance by the Governing Body .