Putting - DO NOT Accelerate Through the Ball

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Your backswing is probably too slow.

It's interesting that you say that. One of the other issues on my SAM puttlab reports is I really struggle to get the swing tempo into the correct buckets. The report I have handy right now has my backswing at 529ms, against a target range of about 590 to 800. My backswing time over impact time is 1.72, when the "norm" should be about 1.9 to 2.3. My backstroke timing is off, but it's not too slow.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

The period should be about the same - your tempo should be about the same - regardless of the length of the putt. So on longer putts, the putter head goes back faster and thus comes forward faster, and so over the same period of time, moves much farther.

That's a great point. That's I think what I next need to work on.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Accelerating all the way to the ball is fine… it's accelerating after the ball that you want to avoid.

A faster, longer backswing is all that's needed.

Just not trusting this yet.

My lines are quite steep up to the ball, then flat after it and dropping away. I'll try to figure out how to post it so you can see. I've been trying to level off the rate into the ball.

I definitely don't need a faster backswing. Longer I can believe, especially on the longer putts. And I absolutely know that I need to ingrain this enough to trust it. I have my thing to work on over the winter.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Ty_Webb said:

It's interesting that you say that. One of the other issues on my SAM puttlab reports is I really struggle to get the swing tempo into the correct buckets. The report I have handy right now has my backswing at 529ms, against a target range of about 590 to 800. My backswing time over impact time is 1.72, when the "norm" should be about 1.9 to 2.3. My backstroke timing is off, but it's not too slow.

I still think it's too slow… Slow is a measure of a task accomplished over time, not just time alone.

If you're having trouble hitting the ball far, your backswing is too short. If you're taking it back 20cm over 529 ms, and I'm telling you to take it back 40cm over 700ms, which one is "slower" than the other? 20 over 529 is slower.

To get the clubhead to go back farther, without taking too long, you'll have to take it back faster. Speed. Velocity.

1 minute ago, Ty_Webb said:

My lines are quite steep up to the ball, then flat after it and dropping away.

Because you take it back too slowly (and thus too short), so you have to speed up fast to try to hit the ball beyond ten feet with a short backswing.

You can do that, too - I can mimic a Brandt Snedeker style stroke that still has proper acceleration/deceleration. But it's uncommon, and seemingly not what you're doing.

1 minute ago, Ty_Webb said:

I definitely don't need a faster backswing. Longer I can believe, especially on the longer putts. And I absolutely know that I need to ingrain this enough to trust it. I have my thing to work on over the winter.

See above. You've gotta take the putter back faster.

[Ty_Webb]

I'm looking at Tiger's puttlab numbers from 2007 from this page: 

The highest speed on the backstroke that I see is right around 625mm/s. Here is mine:

 

I'm seeing well above 625, up near 1,000. Maybe I was hitting a longer putt than he was, but I think the SAM puttlab is standardized at around a 10 foot putt. My speed before impact is higher than his, but by substantially less than the difference in the speed on the backstroke. If you think I should try a faster backstroke I'm happy to try it, but I want to make sure that's the right thing to do first.

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

I'm seeing well above 625, up near 1,000. Maybe I was hitting a longer putt than he was, but I think the SAM puttlab is standardized at around a 10 foot putt.

It's not "standardized" around a 10 foot putt, per se. What I mean is that no normalization occurs. They recommend you hit a 10-footer, but that's largely to keep the numbers inside the graphs. If you were trying to hit a longer putt than he was on slower greens, your numbers will vary, but the relationships should be the same (roughly).

I regularly hit 15-20 footers (stimp 10-12).

18 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

My speed before impact is higher than his, but by substantially less than the difference in the speed on the backstroke. If you think I should try a faster backstroke I'm happy to try it, but I want to make sure that's the right thing to do first.

Also, note how sharply yours is still going up at impact. Compare those to the graphs I posted. You may actually be "stopping" or "braking" the putter, because you're not "coasting" in to impact like this topic advises.

[Ty_Webb]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

It's not "standardized" around a 10 foot putt. That's what's recommended, but if you were trying to hit a longer putt than he was on slower greens, your numbers will vary.

Also, note how sharply yours is still going up at impact. Compare those to the graphs I posted. You may actually be "stopping" or "braking" the putter, because you're not "coasting" in to impact like this topic advises.

This is the “before” one. I’m working on leveling that off into impact. I was a little confused when you said that accelerating to the ball is fine as long as you don’t accelerate after the ball. 

Do you think my backstroke needs to be faster? 

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

This is the “before” one. I’m working on leveling that off into impact. I was a little confused when you said that accelerating to the ball is fine as long as you don’t accelerate after the ball.

The entire downswing is acceleration, right to the point when you hit the bottom of the arc.

Even 1mm/sec^2 is accelerating.

Video would be helpful at this point, too, along with an updated SAM report.

[Ty_Webb]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

The entire downswing is acceleration, right to the point when you hit the bottom of the arc.

Even 1mm/sec^2 is accelerating.

Video would be helpful at this point, too, along with an updated SAM report.

That's fair. I'll see if I can get the updated SAM report and video put together by the weekend. Thanks!

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

That's fair. I'll see if I can get the updated SAM report and video put together by the weekend. Thanks!

Just add it to a Member Swing topic. I don't recall if you have one or not.

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

When you video, FO is most important, but do it in high speed and regular speed, on putts from 10' and 25' or so. Just upload it to YouTube.

[SmiterofPV1x]

I've long known it but am just now ready to admit it. My putting stroke is squarely in the "craptacular" realm. It's hard though when you play lots of courses that the greens are SLOW. Lots easier to practice and use proper mechanics when the ball moves at a decent pace. I had a putt (if you can even call it that) from 80 feet, uphill, and 4ft of fringe to deal with. Greens were faster than they had been but probably were running at a 7-8. They rolled and cut them for the first time this year today, prior they were in the 4-5 range, aka poop slow. I had to hit it so hard that it popped up 3ft in the air. Even with that I still only just got to the hole. 

Fwiw I putt much better on faster greens. But how do we deal with longer uphill putts on slow muni style greens? I can handle putting when they roll quick, but... what's the secret to long putts on slow greens where you have to put a certain amount of "hit" into your stroke? I'm leaning towards "country club" membership being the only real answer but any advice would be much appreciated!

[iacas]

Make a bigger backswing.

[SmiterofPV1x]

Sorry-didn't mean to resurrect an old thread, it was on the home page and I only made it a couple pages before I replied. Again, apologies. 

[iacas]

It’s on the front page because it’s important.

Always better to post in an existing topic than create a duplicate.

[SmiterofPV1x]

Agreed on the importance, I've had way more rounds spoiled by poor putting than I have by crap ball striking. I am however very well versed in spoiling them by both means though...:) Thanks!!

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, SmiterofPV1x said:

Agreed on the importance, I've had way more rounds spoiled by poor putting than I have by crap ball striking. I am however very well versed in spoiling them by both means though...:) Thanks!!

Hmmmmmm.

[SmiterofPV1x]

Yes I need a lesson or two, lol! I prefer to plod along just being average with occasional bouts of brilliance. If I had more than occasional I'd be tempted to try to do more with it. I shot my obligatory annual round of 100+ today so I'm much more receptive to lessons than I am most of the year. I'm blaming my dog bit finger. It may or may not have anything to do with it but I had to buy a right hand glove to stop the bleeding. That equaled no touch. And became an excuse. I hit the range with the kids after my round and their school and became a coach for them because I couldn't hit due to the finger. 

I'm getting off topic so I'll humbly bow out as a below average putter, and based on today, as a below average ball striker. I'm not playing again until my finger is better though. I hate excuses, yet I'm throwing that out there. Bleck! 🙂 Have a nice night! 

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, SmiterofPV1x said:

Yes I need a lesson or two, lol! I prefer to plod along just being average with occasional bouts of brilliance. If I had more than occasional I'd be tempted to try to do more with it. I shot my obligatory annual round of 100+ today so I'm much more receptive to lessons than I am most of the year. I'm blaming my dog bit finger. It may or may not have anything to do with it but I had to buy a right hand glove to stop the bleeding. That equaled no touch. And became an excuse. I hit the range with the kids after my round and their school and became a coach for them because I couldn't hit due to the finger. 

I'm getting off topic so I'll humbly bow out as a below average putter, and based on today, as a below average ball striker. I'm not playing again until my finger is better though. I hate excuses, yet I'm throwing that out there. Bleck! 🙂 Have a nice night! 

Buy a copy of Lowest Score Wins and Every Shot Counts.

Anyway… back to the topic.

[Puttin4Dough]

Does this depend upon the length of the putt?  

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

Does this depend upon the length of the putt?  

Not really, no. Though I don't really care for putts under about six feet… as distance control shouldn't really be a factor there.

So… putts from 6 to 106 feet… do this. For really, really long putts… you might have to "hit" them a bit.