My Secret to pace of play!

[Hardballs]

I don't know. I feel like practice swings get a bad rap. My biggest problem in golf is with making contact with the ball when it's on uneven terrain or buried in grass. I take a bunch of practice swing to get the feel of where my swing should bottom out before every shot. We're usually waiting on the group ahead because play is pretty slow on the weekends on Long Island, but I'd do it regardless because I feel like I'd rather get this shot right than have to go hit one or two more because I made a mess of the first one. The way I do my practice swings, at least, don't add more than 10 seconds to my routine. It's not like I'm posing and visualizing ball flight on each practice swing, haha. I think the most important part of maintaining pace is just maintaining awareness of yourself on the course, knowing where you need to take more time so you can make it up elsewhere if need be. Folks who are in their own little world are the ones who get into trouble.

I agree, and I have started taking practise swings, but mine are just half swings, I'll only do 1 or 2, and they're quick ones! just to remind me to keep my wrists loose, and get my forward at impact, Not actual swings where I stand over an imaginary ball, check posture grip and stance, then take full swings, holding my finish, and gazing at the sky till my imaginary ball lands softly on the green next to the pin! It's people who do this, and repeat twice, then top it 40 yards I was referring to!

[Moppy]

As long as I can't hear you, and you don't slow down play, I don't care. Talking on a cell in a coffee shop is bad manners. If that is the same ethos you take on the course, then I can only assume that you carry those manners with you. If you are talking while walking down the fairway tens of yards from the nearest person, nobody will care. If you are out of earshot of anybody besides your playing partners, who knew what they were getting into, Nobody cares.

I get the feeling you know it is bad manners, which is why you are so defensive about it. Like I said, just don't expect anybody to like it. One of the things I love about golf is that when I am on the course, the only thing I think about is golf. I bet hunting is like that for those who hunt.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

I think the vast majority would agree that a POP recommendation is a minimum speed, and most everybody would ideally be ahead of that.

The POP is that it is just that - the posted pace of play.  I'm not "keeping up" with two groups playing 3 and a half hour rounds just because they happen to be put to either side of me.  I enjoy my time out there.  I'm not in a hurry to get it finished.  The POP is the POP.  You like playing fast rounds.  I don't.  Ideally, everyone would play their round per the rules set by the course, which is 4 hours and 15 minutes.

I dislike a 3 and half hour round as much as I dislike a five hour round.

Quote:

One of the things I love about golf is that when I am on the course, the only thing I think about is golf.

Obviously this isn't true, as you don't think about "only golf" - you get annoyed by what other people are doing, as you''ve said.  Thinking about only golf would mean you play to the POP and ignore everyone else which, as you've said, you don't do, as you allow people on cell phones to bother you.

Quote:

I get the feeling you know it is bad manners, which is why you are so defensive about it

I'm not really "defensive" about it, more just sick of it.  I don't think you getting put behind me on the course allows you to dictate how fast I need to play or what I need to do while I'm playing golf.  About two weeks ago, a group actually told us to hurry up when we made the turn in an hour and fifty minutes. We are on pace to shatter the POP.

EDIT: It was a twosome behind our threesome.  This is what I hate - they didn't care what the speed was, they just didn't want to wait.  This is the problem with teaching people that speed is dependant on "keeping up" with another group.  Everyone, under that theory, should match their speed to the fastest group.  That's silly.  Its my round.

You don't get to dictate how fast I play.  The course does, through its rules.

Now, yes, you don't take this to extremes.  I'm not saying I can just sit on my cell for 10 minutes while you wait fuming.  That would be silly.  However, its pretty annoying to get a 3 hour speed demon group behind you and have them give you crap.  The POP is 4 hours 15 minutes.  If I'm playing at a brisk pace, and I get a call, I'm taking it.  If I finish in less than the POP, its none of your business.

I agree 5 hour rounds are awful.  But some people (like myself) don't like 3 hour rounds either.  The POP is a nice, steady pace at my local, and I really don't understand this unsaid obligation to play fast because you happen to be put in front of fast players.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Not actual swings where I stand over an imaginary ball, check posture grip and stance, then take full swings, holding my finish, and gazing at the sky till my imaginary ball lands softly on the green next to the pin! It's people who do this, and repeat twice, then top it 40 yards I was referring to!

This is the beauty of a POP.  People do whatever they want but have to maintain a certain pace.  A high handicapper that wastes a ton of shots can't have a long preshot routine etc.... but a low capper can.  Its all relative.

You can't set down subjective rules like this.  The only thing that makes sense is to have a "time the round takes" and make everyone fit under it according to their own game.

Having a rule like "don't take practice swings if you top the ball" is impossible to enforce and silly.

Now, maybe you can argue that the POP should be 3 and a half hours, and that's fine.  But having anything but an objective standard just leads to people thinking they are fast and everyone else is slow.

[Golfingdad]

The POP is that it is just that - the posted pace of play.  I'm not "keeping up" with two groups playing 3 and a half hour rounds just because they happen to be put to either side of me.  I enjoy my time out there.  I'm not in a hurry to get it finished.  The POP is the POP.  You like playing fast rounds.  I don't.  Ideally, everyone would play their round per the rules set by the course, which is 4 hours and 15 minutes.

I think part of the problem with arguments/discussions like this is that we both talk in generalities, but we are also both imagining more specific situations as we formulate our arguments in our mind.  So a lot of it probably just boils down to us talking past each other without really disagreeing.

I've played rounds where I've felt a little rushed because it was early in the morning, one of the first groups off, the groups ahead of us were fast, and we couldn't keep up.  But once I realized that we were playing at a perfectly fine pace (under 2 hours at the turn) I stopped worrying about it.  But there is one other caveat to that that I think (I think, but could be wrong) that you seem to be disregarding.  If the group behind us is also faster than us, then it's our duty to let them play through.

If we don't, we're being jerks.  If we don't AND we take calls on our cellphone while they're waiting for us to play then we're being things that aren't printable here.  Big time.  Posted pace of play rules take a backseat to courtesy when there are faster groups behind and room ahead.  Period.

Now, that is kind of the synopsis of the specific situation I'm basing my argument on, and I suspect that it's not quite what you're talking about, and that is what's leading to the disagreement.

---

And for the record, I'm not really a fast player - at least not in the "I want to get this over with as fast as possible" sense.  I'm like you and enjoy my time out there, but I'm aware of other people and don't want to get in anybody's way.

[Dave2512]

I would probably qualify as a speed demon but once in a while I get another single playing crazy fast behind me with an open course ahead. Rather than feeling rushed I let them pass. But I can't think of one time where I was following a group playing close to the published POP and thought geez these folks are dragging ass. Slow play is usually obvious and the factors creating it aren't subtle. It's not the guy taking a couple extra seconds for practice swings.

[Hardballs]

Played in a 2 ball this afternoon! Got stuck behing THE most rudest 2 ball I have ever known! On 3 occasions, (2 before the turn) we were at the tee box the same time as them! The 1st occasion, we said hello as they had just hit their balls as we approached! The 2nd occasion, we got there just as the first guy teed his ball, he hit a good shot, his friend however, duffed 2 tee shots and went 5 off the tee! We knew that this was the guy causing problems, we stood by patiently expecting to be let through! But no! They both jogged to their balls for the next shot! JOGGED! Amazed that someone would rather run down a fairway than let a pair through, We waited till their second shot before we teed off! I presumed they were only there for 9 holes What happened for the next 4 holes was similar! They spent ages on every tee box! Talking, practise swings, pointing at buildings and fields! They must have been barbers! Yet they would jog to their second shots rather than let us through! On the 3rd occasion, 14th hole, we had just putted out and was walking to the 15th they were stood talking again, the pair on the green had just walked of, and yet they were there still talking in deep conversation! We arrived at the box, expecting to be let through, they then carried out their practise swings, teed off, said hello, and then jogged to their balls! We were speechless!

[Golfingdad]

Played in a 2 ball this afternoon! Got stuck behing THE most rudest 2 ball I have ever known! On 3 occasions, (2 before the turn) we were at the tee box the same time as them!

The 1st occasion, we said hello as they had just hit their balls as we approached!

The 2nd occasion, we got there just as the first guy teed his ball, he hit a good shot, his friend however, duffed 2 tee shots and went 5 off the tee! We knew that this was the guy causing problems, we stood by patiently expecting to be let through! But no! They both jogged to their balls for the next shot! JOGGED!

Amazed that someone would rather run down a fairway than let a pair through, We waited till their second shot before we teed off! I presumed they were only there for 9 holes What happened for the next 4 holes was similar! They spent ages on every tee box! Talking, practise swings, pointing at buildings and fields! They must have been barbers!

Yet they would jog to their second shots rather than let us through!

On the 3rd occasion, 14th hole, we had just putted out and was walking to the 15th they were stood talking again, the pair on the green had just walked of, and yet they were there still talking in deep conversation! We arrived at the box, expecting to be let through, they then carried out their practise swings, teed off, said hello, and then jogged to their balls! We were speechless!

I don't think this is totally fair.  They couldn't have been that rude if they actually jogged to all of their shots, and most importantly:

"we stood by patiently expecting to be let through ..."

Instead of sitting quietly and seething then complaining afterwards, wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to simply ASK if you could play through?  They may be beginners and/or not even know the etiquette of allowing groups through, or they recognized you had nowhere to go because ...

Also, if the group ahead of them was still within striking distance all day (you said that they had to wait for the pair in front of them on the 15th hole) then exactly where were you expecting them to let you go?

[Hardballs]

I don't think this is totally fair.  They couldn't have been that rude if they actually jogged to all of their shots, and most importantly: "we stood by patiently expecting to be let through ..." Instead of sitting quietly and seething then complaining afterwards, wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to simply ASK if you could play through?  They may be beginners and/or not even know the etiquette of allowing groups through, or they recognized you had nowhere to go because ... Also, if the group ahead of them was still within striking distance all day (you said that they had to wait for the pair in front of them on the 15th hole) then exactly where were you expecting them to let you go?

I wouldn't ask to be let through, I'd expect to be offered, on the occasion I have had to let through, nobody asked me, I let them know that I would, or will be letting them through when convenient! Although one of the pair appeared a decent player, even he couldn't drive over 300 yards, so there was no need to wait till the green was vacated! And if so, the hacker could have teed off first! Had I been in a rush, I perhaps would have said something, but we were both just waiting to see what would happen! I genuinely thought on the 15 they were waiting to let us through, when they drove and then jogged to their balls we kinda laughed! Totally bemused that someone would rather run down fairways than let a fast 2 ball through! But maybe your right, perhaps they're more stupid than rude! Had they teed off when appropriate instead of talking, they could have walked to there balls talking instead of jogging! Mental!

[Golfingdad]

I wouldn't ask to be let through, I'd expect to be offered, on the occasion I have had to let through, nobody asked me, I let them know that I would, or will be letting them through when convenient! Although one of the pair appeared a decent player, even he couldn't drive over 300 yards, so there was no need to wait till the green was vacated! And if so, the hacker could have teed off first!

Had I been in a rush, I perhaps would have said something, but we were both just waiting to see what would happen! I genuinely thought on the 15 they were waiting to let us through, when they drove and then jogged to their balls we kinda laughed! Totally bemused that someone would rather run down fairways than let a fast 2 ball through!

But maybe your right, perhaps they're more stupid than rude!

Had they teed off when appropriate instead of talking, they could have walked to there balls talking instead of jogging! Mental!

Maybe they just want the exercise. ;)

I played behind a foursome last week and one of them did that on every hole as well.  They weren't holding us up (because the course was full) but he jogged after every shot.  It was odd but amusing.  Maybe he figured that he didn't have to go exercise that evening ... two birds with one stone.

[Dave2512]

That's nothing. A single behind us a few weeks ago was doing pushups in the fairway waiting on us to clear the green. Not sure where he went he headed off after the 2nd hole.

[Hardballs]

That's nothing. A single behind us a few weeks ago was doing pushups in the fairway waiting on us to clear the green. Not sure where he went he headed off after the 2nd hole.

Probably to relieve the frustration of the slow guys in front

[Moppy]

I'm not really "defensive" about it, more just sick of it.

Fine, I am not a POP Nazi. I never rush anyone and try be considerate and to stay ahead of the people behind me, even if it means picking up if a hole really goes south. I cheerfully allow people to play through. Fortunately I live in an area where courses are not crowded and cell phones on the course are rarely used beyond ordering a sandwich at the turn. Count me out of this conversation.

[Hardballs]

I think the vast majority would agree that a POP recommendation is a minimum speed, and most everybody would ideally be ahead of that.

I would think a POP is a max speed! And if your over it, then someone is out there causing delays! I'm not familiar with a "POP" Never seen a sign relating to a "POP" Not sure if the courses I play even have a "POP" I know one course has a speed Marshall, who basically plays every day alone, around 10 o clock, making sure people aren't dawdling! But even if my courses have a "POP" does anyone actually play to them? I rarely check the time! I just play my own game at my own pace, which would appear to be fast! I don't rush, certainly don't jog, I never feel a need to speed up! But I'm subconsciencely aware of what slows a game down, It's just the way I play! [quote name="johnclayton1982" url="/t/74979/my-secret-to-pace-of-play#post_999515"] This is the beauty of a POP.  People do whatever they want. Having a rule like "don't take practice swings if you top the ball" is impossible to enforce A, I think that is what is wrong with a POP! It could be a license to be an ass, I can talk on my phone instead of taking my shot because pop allows it? I'll add up all my 4 balls scores on the green because pop allows it? I'll talk on the tee box as long as I wish because pop allows it? The signs on my course simply say, "avoid slow play, let faster players through" If this happens, then there's no problems! Also you say you dislike 3.5 hr rounds? I guess it's personal preference, that's my ideal round!...for a 3 or 4 ball And it's hard for a club to enforce ANY rule! The people at reception aren't aware what's going on out there, and possibly don't care as long as there's profits made, it's really kinda up to the the people out there, to either let the club know, or educate other golfers in etiquette, which is hard because nobody likes being told they're useless, slow, ruining the game etc. no matter go politely you tell them!

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

I'm not familiar with a "POP"
Never seen a sign relating to a "POP"
Not sure if the courses I play even have a "POP"

You should probably ask before you get PO'd at people on your course for playing speed.....

[krupa]

Here's a nice story of slow players.

At my home course, the first hole is a long par 5 followed by a short-ish par 3, I had to wait at the second hole for a couple guys to finish up on the green.  They saw me behind them, went to the third hole, teed off and then waited for me to catch up.

As I walked up to the tee, they said "Sorry about that, we didn't see you behind us.  I hope we didn't hold you up too much."

[mcanadiens]

Maybe they just want the exercise. ;)

I played behind a foursome last week and one of them did that on every hole as well.  They weren't holding us up (because the course was full) but he jogged after every shot.  It was odd but amusing.  Maybe he figured that he didn't have to go exercise that evening ... two birds with one stone.

I saw the same thing. My guy was an older fellow with a pull cart and he was darn near sprinting to the ball. It was a pretty funny sight watching that cart bounce behind the guy as he tore down the fairway. At the same time, he was probably the most physically-fit 70-year-old I've ever seen.

[Maddog10]

I agree with johnclayton, in theory. If you are playing (as a foursome) within the parameters set my the course in terms of pace of play, then you are fine by me. If you are a twosome, I think it's only fair that you should play in less than the required pace of play and not jack around so that you drag it out to the POP requirement, but I think that's obvious.

The key to me is to just be mindful and courteous to the other groups on the course. I don't talk on the phone at the course, but it's because I don't like to, not because I think it's wrong. I'll usually answer and tell them that I'm golfing and will have to call them later. If it's my wife, she knows to text me and I will respond when I can. I do think it's wrong to sit and talk on the phone if a group is currently waiting on you, even if you are still going to make it within the POP limits. If you need to take the call and you think it may take a few minutes, let the group play through.

Like I said, just be respectful of the other groups and I think you will find the whole process works pretty smoothly. Like johnclayton, I do not enjoy a rushed round. In fact, I probably enjoy it less than a marathon round. As with most people, I will always offer to let faster groups play through given that there is room for them in front of us. I don't know their plans for the day, they may have a kid's baseball game to get to, or an anniversary dinner with their wife. I have no idea, but if they are in that big of a hurry and I'm not, come on through. It makes the day more enjoyable for both of us. But if the course is backed up and every group is waiting, don't sit back there and huff and puff or hit into our group because you are impatient. Nobody is going anywhere fast, so you might as well just enjoy the day.