Being tall an advantage?

[natureboy]

14 hours ago, CyboNinja said:

So if we subtracted 2" from all the player's listed heights that would skew the average of all of them to exactly the national average male height. Interesting. 

That is interesting and a little bit of a 'data quality' problem for my arguments. Hopefully enough of the less 'image-conscious', lower-ranked players have legit official heights to keep the tour average correct relative to the US average. Even if not, I'd still stand by Dave Tutelman's analysis of expected muscle power increase from proportional, but taller players.

An anecdotal example is that an LPGA rookie, Maude Aimee Leblanc who I saw in person hits it a long way. She has a proportionally 'slim' frame, but is very tall and her total muscle gain from the extra height despite relatively leaner proportions allows her to hit it by more powerfully, built shorter players.

Edited August 9, 2016 by natureboy

[natureboy]

11 hours ago, CyboNinja said:

You guys can argue with science all you want. I'm simply pointing out the fact that the numbers line up with what one would predict using the laws of physics. 

I'm not sure what laws of physics you're basing it on? Please explain explicitly.

By your argument would a suspension bridge with all its construction elements proportionally shrunk down be be inherently more stable?

Edited August 9, 2016 by natureboy

[tdiii]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

The diagonal actually reduces distance a bit…

 

Wrong.  Draw a rectangle.  The diagonal is longer than the vertical or horizontal. 

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

 

The different between a 3 iron and a 9 iron is about 3 inches. The recommended club length addition from Ping's fitting chart from a 5'7 person to a 6'4 person is +1/2", and at most maybe 3/4" This comparison of 3 iron to 9 iron is bogus. It's more like comparing a 9 iron to an 8 iron. 

 

I'm 6'6" -- the recommendation is +2" for me.  In Callaway and Ping.  So, 9 iron to 5 iron. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by tdiii

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, natureboy said:

That is interesting and a little bit of a 'data quality' problem for my arguments. Hopefully enough of the less 'image-conscious', lower-ranked players have legit official heights to keep the tour average correct relative to the US average. Even if not, I'd still stand by Dave Tutelman's analysis of expected muscle power increase from proportional, but taller players.

An anecdotal example is that an LPGA rookie, Maude Aimee Leblanc who I saw in person hits it a long way. She has a proportionally 'slim' frame, but is very tall and her total muscle gain from the extra height despite relatively leaner proportions allows her to hit it by more powerfully, built shorter players.

This only really holds if the taller person is just as coordinated as the shorter counterpart. In general, shorter people are more coordinated than taller people and are more capable of more intricate conscious movements. There are obviously exceptions. . .

 

20 minutes ago, tdiii said:

Wrong.  Draw a rectangle.  The diagonal is longer than the vertical or horizontal. 

I'm 6'6" -- the recommendation is +2" for me.  In Callaway and Ping.  So, 9 iron to 5 iron. 

Yeah, this is kind of why it's really difficult to compare iron distances. Some really tall people have a really long swing arc so a 160+ yard 9i carry is not unrealistic which is how far most average sized people carry a 5i.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, tdiii said:

Wrong.  Draw a rectangle.  The diagonal is longer than the vertical or horizontal. 

I'm 6'6" -- the recommendation is +2" for me.  In Callaway and Ping.  So, 9 iron to 5 iron. 

Still, you will not be hitting that 9 iron with the dispersion of a 5 iron because of the loft presented. 

In the end the distance advantage out weights the any loss of accuracy from having a longer club. 

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

This only really holds if the taller person is just as coordinated as the shorter counterpart. In general, shorter people are more coordinated than taller people and are more capable of more intricate conscious movements. There are obviously exceptions.

I have yet to see compelling data on this that makes this case for an average difference across the population. You are probably misinterpreting a selection effect where people of shorter stature who are athletically competitive gravitate toward sports / disciplines where their height is not a disadvantage and the tall people are elsewhere. The only exception I can think of is gymnastics where there is a clear power - to weight ratio and that tends to favor shorter athletes.

I accept that a big growth spurt will create a lack of coordination until the person has had time to adapt to their longer limbs. For adults, I don't see a lot of remedial walking classes for tall people or them being classified as higher risk drivers. It takes a hell of a lot of coordination to pitch a baseball fast and effectively. There are a lot of tall pitchers.

There aren't a lot of 'giant' sized baseball players, but pitchers tend to be taller than average. As you've said in other posts, there' are some overlapping mechanics / similarities of a 'throw' with the golf swing.

Quote

A quick check of this season's MLB stats shows the average height of the top 10 pitchers with the most strikeouts this season is 6' 5” compared to the average height of all MLB players of 6' 1”. In fact, the height of pro pitchers has been on the rise for the last 110 years and they're throwing harder.

Hitters range the gamut, but there have been lots of relatively tall batters with great careers like Ted Williams (6'3" in an era where average height was lower), Frank Howard, Mark McGwire, John Olerud...etc. The 'slower' nerves and high CoG from being tall did not handicap these players. The Splendid Splinter was even a bit 'lean' in his playing days yet was one of the best hitters of all time. Hitting a baseball is much harder in terms of coordination than hitting a golf ball. John Olerud was noted for his defense as a 3-time Gold Glove recipient.

Position players / batters may be slightly shorter than pitchers, but they are still taller than the U.S. population by 3 inches. Reaction time (nerve transmission) is I would argue more crucial to baseball than in golf and balance more critical, because you are adjusting to try to hit a moving object while also in motion.

Here's a great article on size advantage in baseball: http://www.azsnakepit.com/2010/7/5/1550963/baseball-players-does-size-matter. In a nutshell: slugging and home run percentage is strongly correlated with height, batting average is not.

IIRC, if you are 7' you have like a ~20% chance of already being in the NBA. That's an indication of how strong the selection for tall players is for that sport. Most people gravitate to where they have natural advantages in a sport unless they really love doing something else.

Obviously height alone is not enough to make it in the NBA or MLB. You have to be athletic and probably have above average coordination or reaction times as a batter.

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

Yeah, this is kind of why it's really difficult to compare iron distances. Some really tall people have a really long swing arc so a 160+ yard 9i carry is not unrealistic which is how far most average sized people carry a 5i.

You may or may not have meant to, but this anecdote underscores the power advantage from being tall.

Edited August 9, 2016 by natureboy

[iacas]

4 hours ago, tdiii said:

Wrong.  Draw a rectangle.  The diagonal is longer than the vertical or horizontal.

Add 8" to one side of the rectangle. The diagonal does not increase 8".

That was my point.

[tdiii]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Add 8" to one side of the rectangle. The diagonal does not increase 8".

That was my point.

That's nonsensical. 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, tdiii said:

That's nonsensical. 

Nah. Scroll back to when I said it. You just said:

On August 8, 2016 at 1:22 PM, tdiii said:

And it is not an inch or two.  If you are 5'10" and I'm 6'6", I'm 8" farther away from the ball than are you.  Maybe even a bit more because the ball is probably farther away from our feet. 

It's not 8" because the diagonal doesn't grow at a 1:1 rate with one of the sides. Plus I might stand taller at address than you (relatively), removing more of those 8".

Anyway, again, the advantage outweighs the disadvantage. That's all I've really continued to say here.

P.S. Tall people tend to have longer arms. That is why the length of clubs doesn't grow as rapidly as their height. If 70 inches is standard, 78" doesn't require 8" longer clubs.

[boogielicious]

16 hours ago, Lihu said:

This only really holds if the taller person is just as coordinated as the shorter counterpart. In general, shorter people are more coordinated than taller people and are more capable of more intricate conscious movements.

[tdiii]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Nah. Scroll back to when I said it. You just said:

It's not 8" because the diagonal doesn't grow at a 1:1 rate with one of the sides. Plus I might stand taller at address than you (relatively), removing more of those 8".

Anyway, again, the advantage outweighs the disadvantage. That's all I've really continued to say here.

P.S. Tall people tend to have longer arms. That is why the length of clubs doesn't grow as rapidly as their height. If 70 inches is standard, 78" doesn't require 8" longer clubs.

I'm 6'6".  Say you're 5'10".  My eyes are 8" above the ground farther than are yours. Probably 9" farther than the ball than are yours.  Put another way, I'm 13% farther from the ball than are you -- so that I'm not hunched over. 

And, as previously mentioned, I play clubs that are 2" longer than normal.  My 9 iron is the length of your 5 iron -- and I'm 13% farther from that ball too. 

Do I have a length advantage?  Sure.  Is the game tougher for all outliers (i.e., folks beyond the 5'10" to 6'2" or so sweetspot).  Of course. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by tdiii

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, tdiii said:

I'm 6'6".  Say you're 5'10".  My eyes are 8" above the ground farther than are yours. Probably 9" farther than the ball than are yours.

No, they're not. That would only be true if:

• We both stood vertically.
• The ball was directly at our feet.

Neither of those are the case. It's simple trigonometry.

This is so basic and at the same time so far beside the point that we're done discussing it.

P.S. 8/70 is not 13%.

---

Anyway, again, the height advantage outweighs the disadvantage. That's all I've really continued to say here. If you want to feel that you're massively disadvantaged because you're taller, you probably won't win much sympathy from shorter than average people.

[Groucho Valentine]

I haven't read all the replies in this thread - but hell yeah its and advantage lol. Especially if you have long arms. Im not saying NBA tall, like 6'7 or something, but if you're in the 6"2" to 6"4" range i think you have a natural advantage over a shorter player when all other things are equal. Longer arms = more leverage. Dustin Johnson and Bubba Watson (for example) have ideal body types for golf. 

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Not sure what this means? Please enlighten me.

[Groucho Valentine]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Not sure what this means? Please enlighten me.

Hes upset hes not a statuesque tall man. 

[Lihu]

12 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Hes upset hes not a statuesque tall man. 

Ah, okay. Thanks. That one flew right over my head. . .

 

[boogielicious]

36 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Not sure what this means? Please enlighten me.

Tall person, Michael Jordan crying because you think tall people are not coordinated. 

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

Not sure what this means? Please enlighten me.

You made Michael cry for not appreciating his amazing athleticism.