All shaft lengths the same?

[KCNick]

I was just thinking yesterday... why not make all clubs in your set the exact same length?

If the loft in the head makes the trajectory/distance difference, wouldn't this allow for a completely consistent swing from club to club? I think, and it makes sense, that longer shafts create more distance (how much??), but if you just ignored that tiny shaft length difference, wouldn't more accurate results be more desirable?

Any thoughts?

[jmurdock]

I was just thinking yesterday... why not make all clubs in your set the exact same length?

This thread just gave me a headache. Seriously?? All the same length??

[bwinger79]

Let me know how many wedges you hit to 10 ft. with a 45" shaft on them. Was this post meant to be serious??

[iacas]

If the loft in the head makes the trajectory/distance difference, wouldn't this allow for a completely consistent swing from club to club?

I'll give you a 12" 3-iron and you let me know if you hit that as far as your regular 3-iron, ok?

Point being simply this: the club's length matters too. It ain't just loft that affects distance.

[ettsn]

There is a company making clubs like this: KIS Golf

http://68.178.241.5/KisClubs.aspx

[iacas]

There is a company making clubs like this: KIS Golf

They don't seem to be selling clubs all of the same length. The picture on the page you linked to clearly shows clubs of different lengths.

[HarlDane]

Theres no need to berate the guy for asking a question, instead of sarcastic comments about 12" or 45" long wedges, why not address the mans question?

This company http://www.1irongolf.com/ is making irons like that, all fitted to the length of a 7 iron. I've never used them and I'm far too new a golfer to have an educated opinion, but someone has thought of the idea and come out with a product so it's not a completely absurd question, despite what some of you may think.

[ettsn]

I visited their shop near me, and they explained that their clubs are easier to hit because you only need to learn three swings: wood, iron and putter, instead of 14 (one for each club). This was because (if the guy I talked to wasn't pulling my leg) each iron had the same length and lie, and only the loft changed.

Edit: needless to say, I felt it was probably the dumbest thing I had ever heard of.

[KCNick]

Let me know how many wedges you hit to 10 ft. with a 45" shaft on them. Was this post meant to be serious??

Who said it has to be 45"? Geez, relax some guy.

I googled it just out of curiosity and clubmakers have tried to offer this before, so obviously someone else has had this thought. On a set of Pings I'm looking at on their website, it's a 2" difference from a 1 to 5, a 2" difference from a 5 to 9 iron. And a .75" difference from 9 to LW. You could just find a middle ground around the 5 or 6 iron, and that wouldn't be too outrageous I don't think.

[KCNick]

I'll give you a 12" 3-iron and you let me know if you hit that as far as your regular 3-iron, ok?

That would be a great example, except it's apples to oranges.

A better example would be.. give me a 12" 3-iron and a 12" 5-iron and lets see which one goes farther. And exactly how much father can you get say... a 13" 3-iron over a 12" 3-iron. And is THAT difference worth not using the exact same swing on all your irons?

[iacas]

That would be a great example, except it's apples to oranges.

No, it's not. I was exaggerating to make a point: a 3-iron the length of your pitching wedge won't go as far as your 3-iron the length of a normal 3-iron would go.

The difference is substantial. People have a driver swingspeed of 105 and a 5-iron swingspeed of 85. So yeah, the difference matters. Even an inch can matter to some people: look at the TM Burner drivers at 46". Whatever length you choose, the distances you hit your different clubs will compress towards that club. So if you like your 7-iron length, your 3-iron will hit the ball much shorter and your pitching wedge much longer. The clubs that should normally cover, say, 220 yards to 115 yards will now cover only 200 to 130 yards. My suggestion: learn to play golf the right way instead of worrying about different club lengths. Cuz, heck, even a sidehill lie will change the shape of your swing a little.

[KCNick]

No, it's not. I was exaggerating to make a point: a 3-iron the length of your pitching wedge won't go as far as your 3-iron the length of a normal 3-iron would go.

Actually, it is apples to oranges. No one is disputing that shaft length controls distance also, that would be silly. Your example

only illustrates shaft length controls distance. And at that, massive shaft length change is completely destructive. The questions asked relate to whether or not accuracy gained from consistent shaft length would be worth the changes in distance, if somewhat negligible. Hence... the 12" 3-iron vs. a 12" 5-iron example (as compared to your standard 3-iron vs a standard 5-iron) shows the impact to your club yardages. Are those changes still reasonably playable? Say your standard irons vary 10 yards, and now they vary more like 7 yards. As a beginner, I would have to seriously contemplate taking that type of compression to swing all my irons the same. And the 13" 5-iron vs a 12" 5-iron example, although similiar to your example in nature as it's a shaft length change, is not in fact the same, because in this example the change is not destructive, nor insane with the assumption other clubs in the set use a 12" (which is a really silly number to begin with). I mean, if I wanted to use your own example right back at you - why don't people who want to absolutely nail the green from 250 yards out whip out a fantastic 48" Wedge that can drop it right in there with no chance to skid off. Obviously people who can play the game right can swing any shaft length perfectly to obtain those longer distances so I guess that means control doesn't even factor into the equation. Exaggeration isn't king to explain all, that's why. Control vs. Distance is a major equation in the game of golf. You can't just ignore the control factor. But that aside, I see other posters have shown people trying to do it and I've also found someone that did it and has no regrets. I have no intention to invest in this idea myself, but found it to be a curious one and wondered if anyone here had ever messed with it. Thanks for all the replies.

[sandtrap]

Tommy Armour made a set about 15 years ago called the EQL. All were 7 iron length.

They didn't sell many

[iacas]

Actually, it is apples to oranges.

C'mon, you've clearly missed the point of my example. You said it was the loft that created trajectory/distance difference and that the length of the shaft differed only in "tiny" amounts. My example illustrates that this thinking is incorrect and that shaft length is more than a "tiny" component of the different distances we hit our clubs.

The questions asked relate to whether or not accuracy gained from consistent shaft length would be worth the changes in distance, if somewhat negligible.

I think hundreds of years of golf history has already answered this question for you: no. If this were the way to play golf, more than a few sorry souls would be doing it.

Say your standard irons vary 10 yards, and now they vary more like 7 yards. As a beginner, I would have to seriously contemplate taking that type of compression to swing all my irons the same.

It'd probably be more like four or five yards - and different for everyone. So again, you're taking 220-115 yards and compressing that by quite a bit to, say, 185 to 135. You've taken 100 yards and made it 50, and you've taken the yardage gap normally covered by four irons (your 5, 6, 7, and 8) and instead wasted four more clubs on that gap.

And that's assuming these golfers - who aren't skilled enough to adjust to clubs of different lengths - are at all consistent to begin with. They aren't, and they won't hit their "one-length" clubs consistent distances.

I mean, if I wanted to use your own example right back at you - why don't people who want to absolutely nail the green from 250 yards out whip out a fantastic 48" Wedge that can drop it right in there with no chance to skid off.

Again, I think you've missed the point of my example. You originally stated that the "loft in the head makes the trajectory/distance difference." I was simply illustrating that there's more to it than the "loft in the head."

Exaggeration isn't king to explain all, that's why. Control vs. Distance is a major equation in the game of golf. You can't just ignore the control factor.

I'm not ignoring it: learn to hit a 3-iron accurately

Besides, there's no evidence to suggest you'd gain any "control" in having clubs the same length. I guarantee you someone who shoots 110 with mixed-length clubs can just as easily shoot 110 with same-length clubs.

[KCNick]

I was just thinking yesterday... why not make all clubs in your set the exact same length?

I did say that loft creates different distances. But I also said that longer shafts create more distance. Don't selectively omit what you want and then try to say I've missed your point. I got your point before you even made the point. It's right there in the original post.

And then you made the mistake of changing tiny shaft length difference to tiny component of distance difference. If you're going to try to be so exact with quotes, please, be exact. I clearly noted the differences in shaft length are tiny (to me). I then pondered how much distance that tiny length difference translates to. If you think it's 4-5 yards, then that's interesting and valuable. Also, people are creatures of habit. Just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean no one can dare to change or be different. I agree that the small amount of people doing it is to be considered, but I don't just write things off because not a lot of people do it. And I think your assumptions about beginning golfers are a little off. I can consistently nail my wedge right at the pin. Ask me to consistently nail a 5 yet, and I can't... not like my wedge. And yes I'm aware that the further the ball travels, the more left/right it moves as a result of distance. So, I do think there's a point where a golfer of some level can hit 1 or more irons well, but not all of them. There has to be, otherwise the minute you could hit the PW like clockwork, you'd be nailing your 2-irons down the fairway. And you are ignoring the point. You reply, just hit the 3-iron accurately. But your original example makes no point of control. Only that hitting a really tiny 3 iron will get you nowhere compared to a regular 3-iron. To which I reply, try a 48" wedge from 250 if shaft length is everything. So again, to reply to your adjusted comment of just hit the ball right... I guess you just have to hit the 48" wedge accurately. I do appreciate half your post though.

[iacas]

Don't selectively omit what you want and then try to say I've missed your point.

I've not omitted anything, and sorry to beat a well-dead horse, but you're still missing the point I'm making: it's a combination of loft and length that create the gaps in distance between clubs. You're giving very little credit to the length of the shaft as a determining factor.

Compressing a 100+ yard gap covered by eight irons into a 50-yard gap is BAD. The average golfer isn't consistent enough to take advantage of the tighter gapping anyway. You're better off learning to hit a 3-iron than you are gaining a tiny bit of control and losing 50 yards of coverage.

And then you made the mistake of changing tiny shaft

No, I didn't make that mistake. You were attributing all (or most) of the difference in distance to loft. I said that's not so. Those "tiny" differences in club length have more than a "tiny" effect on distance.

If you think it's 4-5 yards, then that's interesting and valuable.

Grip down an inch on your wedge, lose 10 yards. So yeah, without the half-inch stepping, 4-5 yards is about right, down from 11 or 12 we normally see from club to club (a combination of loft and length).

And I think your assumptions about beginning golfers are a little off.

I've probably seen more beginners than you have. If you're a 50+ handicapper who can "nail [your] wedge right at the pin," you're in a very, very small minority. Most of your peers are shanking and hitting the ball fat and thin, pushing and pulling it, and all manner of things. Even most bogey golfers aren't very consistent with their wedges.

And you are ignoring the point.

Truthfully, I think you have no point

to ignore. Your premise is faulty (that loft alone or primarily controls distance) and it's downhill from there.

You reply, just hit the 3-iron accurately. But your original example makes no point of control. Only that hitting a really tiny 3 iron will get you nowhere compared to a regular 3-iron. To which I reply, try a 48" wedge from 250 if shaft length is everything.

No...

Let me try again: you undervalued the role of shaft length as a factor in distance. I made the point by using an extreme example that shows it's more than just loft that creates distance. That point has nothing to do with my later assertion that it's far more beneficial to learn to hit a 3-iron (or 5-iron, or whatever) accurately than to compress the yardage range covered by traditional irons into a tiny range covered by a same-length set of irons. The average golfer will get more out of being able to cover a wider range than to have "one swing," particularly when "one swing" isn't ever going to be "one swing" due to sidehill lies, the existence of drivers (45"), etc. One more try at a different method, then I'm done: Make every club (hypothetically) the length of your 6-iron or 7-iron. Sure, you'll be okay with your 6-iron or 7-iron, but its going to progressively make the other clubs more worthless. It's not often we're asked to be incredibly accurate with our 3-irons. Not many designers create 200-yard par threes with postage stamp sized greens - they reserve those for the really short holes. And on that end, the delicate 115-yard shot, why you're going to be a whole lot less delicate with a 6-iron length wedge. Good luck dialing that baby in. The wedge is a scoring club. You need to be precise, and thus you're actually giving up "control" by making the shaft longer. Distance vs. Control probably works out to 10/90. You're not looking to get a lot of distance, but you are looking to control the ball well (which includes precise distance and left/right accuracy). The 3-iron is not a scoring club per se - it's a distance club, with probably a 90/10 distance/control split. You primarily use it in situations where you want to put the ball in play 220 yards out, or on long par threes with good sized greens, etc. You're hitting to large targets, so incredible accuracy isn't a must. You lose on both ends - the short and long ends - if you push all those clubs into the 6- or 7-iron length. You asked "Any thoughts?" Those are mine, and I'm done now.

[Q.Q.Quillume]

Here is a Q & A addressing this issue I found at: http://www.franklygolf.com/Q_A/irons.asp (Frank Thomas website)

(Frank Thomas is Chief Technical Advisor to Golf Channel and Golf Digest and also served as Technical Director of the USGA for 26 years).


While browsing the web I came across a company named 1 Iron Golf. They advocate the benefits of the irons all being the same length, same swing weight; same offset and bounce. The idea I know is not new, however in a lot of respects it seems to make a lot of sense. Their idea of essentially one iron, one swing seems on the surface to have some merit. What do you think of this concept? Hope to hear from you on this idea.
This is not a new concept and I think that every club designer has at one time or another thought about doing it as it solves the problems associated with matching. It results in the same frequency, same swing-weight, same lie angles etc. This is not as efficient as the set lengths we presently have because we need the extra length to get more club head speed and wider arc, which in turn gives us increased distance from the longer (less lofted) irons than the shorter ones. With clubs all the same length we also get the same head speed for each club. The overall effect of this “same” set is that it compresses the differences in distances from the 3- PW through the set to about ¾ of the difference in distance range of a conventional set.

[allin]

Here is a Q & A addressing this issue I found at:

Couldn't this be offset by increasing the loft differentials? You could compose a set with 3 lengths. One for 7 iron through wedges (37), a longer length for 3 to 6 hybrids (38.5), and one more for 3 woods (42). Head weights would have to be the same, but if you are long but inconsistent this could work.