Trackman and FlightScope Devices Take Guessing out of Equation

[iacas]

Mike, how much would hitting off the toe add to hooks spin because of the gear effect? Say to shots the same path, one on toe one in sweet spot , in to out 10* swing with slightly closed face to path?

There's nowhere near enough information there to give you an answer.

I've seen toe hooks that hit the ground 120 yards from the tee. They can be pretty nasty.

[SAGolfLuvr]

I am commenting on the initial post by MvMac that started this thread. According to his quotes, Tiger obviously uses the Trackman. He didn't make the cut in his "comeback tournament". Real golf courses have uneven lies that you don't find at the driving range. I guess what I really want to say is that I haven't seen Trackman on uneven lies giving distance, and ball flight and spin measurements. I have reviewed the 3Bays GSA (it will give you swing path and DISTANCES [nothing in this price range does both] based on a calculation for approximately $200).The 3Bays GSA and ES12 will give us amateurs close enough distance measurements for much less money. Both devices can be taken to the golf course while you play for much, much, much, less money (and bulk) than a Trackman. Again, I believe the distances are close enough for us amateurs.

If you are getting fitted for clubs/balls or being instructed on swing mechanics, then Trackman, GC2, and maybe P3Pro, are great tools (I'm not sure about ES14 yet). I'm not saying the Trackman isn't awesome. I am saying that we amateurs can benefit from much cheaper, more portable, and good enough Golf Swing Analyzers (like 3 Bays GSA) and Doppler radar devices (ES12 and maybe ES14).

[iacas]

I guess what I really want to say is that I haven't seen Trackman on uneven lies giving distance, and ball flight and spin measurements.

What's stopping you?

I've used a FlightScope on uneven lies. You can take it out on the course, plop it down, and away you go. Heck, I've seen it used out of bunkers…

The 3Bays GSA and ES12 will give us amateurs close enough distance measurements for much less money.

There's a lot more to a FlightScope/Trackman than "distance measurements."

[billchao]

The 3Bays GSA and ES12 will give us amateurs close enough distance measurements for much less money.

I never understood these kinds of devices. I don't need one, I have a laser rangefinder. Not too hard to hit a shot and laser backwards to get my distances.

What they fail to measure is why I want to get on a TM or FS in the first place.

[Wangus94]

Unless you hit it off the toe. If by square you mean matching the path and not "at the target" then yes, push that doesn't curve. Ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.

That's what I do... toe balls. My path was 5 right and my face 6 right and the ball going left. -12 spin axis. I don't need a radar to see the ball hooks lol, but the radar at least guess closely that my face must have rotated or as the gurus call it 'geared' open to 6 by being struck somewhere on the toe. +5 path +6 face +2 attack. Not bad numbers other than the gear effect but I know it's a stuck move where I lose my posture and hit on the toe apparently. I get better numbers with a -2 or 3 oath and -1 attack... better posture and less gear effect.

[mvmac]

That's what I do... toe balls. My path was 5 right and my face 6 right and the ball going left. -12 spin axis. I don't need a radar to see the ball hooks lol, but the radar at least guess closely that my face must have rotated or as the gurus call it 'geared' open to 6 by being struck somewhere on the toe. +5 path +6 face +2 attack. Not bad numbers other than the gear effect but I know it's a stuck move where I lose my posture and hit on the toe apparently. I get better numbers with a -2 or 3 oath and -1 attack... better posture and less gear effect.

Yes it's not the hitting up and swinging out that's causing you to toe it, if I had to guess I'd say it's because of how you're trying to go about swinging up or it's something you do with most of your clubs. Some golfers think that in order to get a positive AoA they have to "hang back" or try to early extend at too fast a rate. Some amount of early extension is a good thing, gets the sweetspot to work outward.

The solution doesn't have to be to start swinging down and left, that's a band aid, the golfer would just need to learn how to hit up effectively. This whole response wasn't really to you @Wangus94 , I know your mind is already made up, I don't want anyone else thinking they can't hit the sweetspot and achieve a positve AoA, lots of golfers do so, check out Bubba Watson's latest TM numbers.

[NewStart14]

That's what I do... toe balls. My path was 5 right and my face 6 right and the ball going left. -12 spin axis. I don't need a radar to see the ball hooks lol, but the radar at least guess closely that my face must have rotated or as the gurus call it 'geared' open to 6 by being struck somewhere on the toe. +5 path +6 face +2 attack. Not bad numbers other than the gear effect but I know it's a stuck move where I lose my posture and hit on the toe apparently. I get better numbers with a -2 or 3 oath and -1 attack... better posture and less gear effect.

Weird. If your path is 5 right in to out, and you face to path is 6 open to path, you would push slice. If you hit it on the toe then gear effect would probably make the shot a straight push. Now if what you mean is your face was 6 open to target line then that would make you a 1 open to path and a straight push right. Toe shot would draw the ball do to gear effect, so I'm guessing a ball drawing to or across the target line? Aoa will also change the results.

[iacas]

Weird. If your path is 5 right in to out, and you face to path is 6 open to path, you would push slice. If you hit it on the toe then gear effect would probably make the shot a straight push. Now if what you mean is your face was 6 open to target line then that would make you a 1 open to path and a straight push right. Toe shot would draw the ball do to gear effect, so I'm guessing a ball drawing to or across the target line? Aoa will also change the results.

No. Face is calculated. If you toe it the ball starts right and so the face "reads" as right. Balls can hook like crazy when toed. @Wangus94 your numbers weren't "good."

[NewStart14]

Either way the numbers areNOT good, as you are pushing the ball. With a 5 in to out path you want the face slightly closed to path to draw it back towards the target line. Non toe shot. ?????????

[NewStart14]

No. Face is calculated. If you toe it the ball starts right and so the face "reads" as right. Balls can hook like crazy when toed. @Wangus94 your numbers weren't "good."

I guess I need to do some reading on face and the gear effect then.

[Wangus94]

Yes it's not the hitting up and swinging out that's causing you to toe it, if I had to guess I'd say it's because of how you're trying to go about swinging up or it's something you do with most of your clubs. Some golfers think that in order to get a positive AoA they have to "hang back" or try to early extend at too fast a rate. Some amount of early extension is a good thing, gets the sweetspot to work outward.  The solution doesn't have to be to start swinging down and left, that's a band aid, the golfer would just need to learn how to hit up effectively. This whole response wasn't really to you @Wangus94 , I know your mind is already made up, I don't want anyone else thinking they can't hit the sweetspot and achieve a positve AoA, lots of golfers do so, check out Bubba Watson's latest TM numbers.

What does I already have my mind made up mean? I'm talking about my own swing, not anyone else's. I think your exaggerating your words buddy when you say ' swinging down and left' as -1 isn't down and -3 really isn't that far left. I get better contact feeling like I'm swinging more leftward and the pro told me the attack angle is just a byproduct. I know my numbers aren't good.... that was my entire point fellas. I didn't tell anyone they can't get upward and rightward swings that are effective but for me, I'm better off the other way. It kinda sounds like you guys think everyone should swing the same way based on these responses. I also don't try to hit up and out, that naturally happens in my swing with a teed up ball.

[mvmac]

Came across this video of Kevin Streelman

I know my numbers aren't good.... that was my entire point fellas.

Not what you said here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wangus94

I'll give you guys a good example.... when I went down to SD and got a lesson on Trackman, I had and still have positive attack angle numbers and a pretty big inside out move. The numbers look great, but what I was really doing was getting stuck and early extending.

[Wangus94]

So he's not hitting up then?

[mvmac]

So he's not hitting up then?

He said he wants it close to level because he was too steep before.

If you want to talk about hitting up or down this would be the thread

[Wangus94]

I'm just confused because you said I was " down and left' but then in the video Streelman talks about a 0 attack angle and mine was -1. This thread was supposed to be about feels and how the data correlates I thought. For me, it felt like I was really trying to swing left and as the pro pointed out, I really wasn't vey left at all. It also didn't feel like I was down despite the fact my attack changed changed 3 degrees ( from +2 to -1) I do swing pretty fast however ( 110-112) and I could see how a slower swinging player could really be hurt if they were steep. I was told not to focus on the up vs down swing and just work on my pivot and posture and make sure I stay behind the ball. I don't care what the numbers say so long as Imcan hit that SOB straight and play my approach from the fairway and not in the left trees at my hone course. Priority #1 for me.... I do agree that the machine confirms or denies if what you feel is happening really is or not and feel is definitely not always real.

[Longleftthumb]

How about the fact that the centre of the blob being measured for club path is a lot further back with driver than with an iron, so the face is already a number of degrees headed left (unless the club is moving in a straight line). The number on the screen that represents club path is accurate, but not necessarily what the ball experiences. Would that account for some quirky ball flights from pretty solid looking numbers?

[mvmac]

I'm just confused because you said I was " down and left' but then in the video Streelman talks about a 0 attack angle and mine was -1. This thread was supposed to be about feels and how the data correlates I thought. For me, it felt like I was really trying to swing left and as the pro pointed out, I really wasn't vey left at all. It also didn't feel like I was down despite the fact my attack changed changed 3 degrees ( from +2 to -1) I do swing pretty fast however ( 110-112) and I could see how a slower swinging player could really be hurt if they were steep.

Reason for my post was to point out that I don't think feeling like you swing more left is a great solution. There are more pieces at play and with enough time with this feel, you have to be careful that feel doesn't become real. -1 can quickly become -3 and then you're kind of stuck in this vicious circle of going back and forth between feeling like you swing left, then right etc. Speaking from personal experience here

Like I said, if you want to continue this discussion please post in the Inline driver thread or PM me. Any more posts pertaining to your swing and/or merits of hitting up/down will be deleted.

[Wangus94]

Reason for my post was to point out that I don't think feeling like you swing more left is a great solution. There are more pieces at play and with enough time with this feel, you have to be careful that feel doesn't become real. -1 can quickly become -3 and then you're kind of stuck in this vicious circle of going back and forth between feeling like you swing left, then right etc. Speaking from personal experience here ;-) Like I said, if you want to continue this discussion please post in the Inline driver thread or PM me. Any more posts pertaining to your swing and/or merits of hitting up/down will be deleted.

Deleted? Really? This is related to the topic of using Trackman and it's applications. Nearly every post I make you say is off topic or will be deleted. It appears that if I don't post something pre-approved it's considered off topic. Kinda suspect. I have to work on my pivot and get more rotational, my right shoulder drops when I get hands too deep and too the inside and I come out of my posture. I bend too much to the right, causes me to swing too far from the inside. The fix ilies in my right shoulder and feeling it work out more, less down. The result is the club stays on a better plane and the path doesn't shallow as much. The #s I posted were the result of that move, but the resulting ball flight and contact improved. That's my fix.... go ahead and delete this post for being 'off topic'