Courses Should Pair Players according to skill if possible

[Lihu]

To that I say get them on a launch monitor and prove it. Their high scores are enough for me to doubt it, nobody hits a driver better than a short iron, nobody. In seriousness I take these claims with a grain of salt every time. We all remember the "why doesn't anyone believe I can drive it 300" thread. When that guy got back from the launch monitor he came crashing out of the clouds back to earth. He hit something like two balls out of a hundred just over 300. The rest significantly shorter and in every direction. I think he averaged around 235 during that session and while he had the stones to post results he didn't hang around long after that. Pretty sure when it was said and done he still didn't want to swallow the results saying he would have performed better with a little more time, said he was just warming up.

This is kind of irrelevant, because there are always those two shots you don't want to make strictly for safety purposes.

I agree that many people overestimate their distances. I was just having a conversation about driving distances, and the google earth distances show one value while the "gut" told them another. 250 yards is a really long way out there. Agreed.

[Aguirre]

Yes, this is what golf needs.  More exclusivity.

I'd prefer to be paired with golfers who swear and drink and tell stories.  That should be an option.

When I play with my friends, I'm free to call the golf ball names.  I strike that nine iron, and it starts to draw too much.... "Hold that line you f****** *****. Hit soft you c***.  Soft!"  GIR.  I'm happy.  Group is smiling.

[turtleback]

Again, there are 15-25 handicap players who play relatively quickly. I think the misconception is that high handicap players are automatically short from the tee and play slow.

Which is exactly the misconception I was trying to counter.

[Dave2512]

FWIW I never mentioned POP in this thread only that a consistent long game doesn't usually go hand in hand with high handicap golf, at least not for me. When these threads come up there is always anecdotal evidence mentioned of high handicap golfers with terrible short games. It rarely makes sense. For example you typically don't see people 3 putt every hole unless they are new golfers. Even a terrible putter probably isn't getting much over 40 putts a round. In fact bogey golfers often make a lot of 1 putts due to missing greens. But even so say a golfer shooting 90 something has a terrible day on greens and has 42 putts. If par is 72 he averaged at least one poor shot per hole to get to that score that isn't a putt. That isn't indicative of good ball striking. What's the chance all those bad shots come after a good drive. A bad shot is still going to be a bad shot but closer to the hole tends to minimize the damage. It's not about being short it's about being inconsistent.

[Spyder]

FWIW I never mentioned POP in this thread only that a consistent long game doesn't usually go hand in hand with high handicap golf, at least not for me. When these threads come up there is always anecdotal evidence mentioned of high handicap golfers with terrible short games. It rarely makes sense. For example you typically don't see people 3 putt every hole unless they are new golfers. Even a terrible putter probably isn't getting much over 40 putts a round. In fact bogey golfers often make a lot of 1 putts due to missing greens. But even so say a golfer shooting 90 something has a terrible day on greens and has 42 putts. If par is 72 he averaged at least one poor shot per hole to get to that score that isn't a putt. That isn't indicative of good ball striking. What's the chance all those bad shots come after a good drive. A bad shot is still going to be a bad shot but closer to the hole tends to minimize the damage. It's not about being short it's about being inconsistent.

Nobody said that high handicappers were consistent. That is like saying black is really white, it's self evident in the sentence. What you stated was that higher handicap golfers do not average drives of 250 yards and I told you that is not true. You can still have a lot of distance and lack consistency in terms of keeping the ball in play, or in salvageable position on the course. My only correction and comment to what you said was that there are high handicap players who have great distance. It's obvious and goes without say that they lack consistency though.

[Lihu]

FWIW I never mentioned POP in this thread only that a consistent long game doesn't usually go hand in hand with high handicap golf, at least not for me. When these threads come up there is always anecdotal evidence mentioned of high handicap golfers with terrible short games. It rarely makes sense. For example you typically don't see people 3 putt every hole unless they are new golfers. Even a terrible putter probably isn't getting much over 40 putts a round. In fact bogey golfers often make a lot of 1 putts due to missing greens. But even so say a golfer shooting 90 something has a terrible day on greens and has 42 putts. If par is 72 he averaged at least one poor shot per hole to get to that score that isn't a putt. That isn't indicative of good ball striking. What's the chance all those bad shots come after a good drive. A bad shot is still going to be a bad shot but closer to the hole tends to minimize the damage. It's not about being short it's about being inconsistent.

There are always exceptions to this.

Anecdotally, my daughter and I were within a few yards of regulation on all our holes, and most of our misses were chips or putts with one underestimated distance on a pitch shot. My 50 yards shot landed exactly 15 yards short of the 65 yards it turned out to be. Didn't bother to take out the rangefinder until after the shot. After hitting to over 400 yards in two shots (me and my daughter taking alternate shots) we still shot a double due to a poor chip and a poor lag putt following this distance mess up. Stupid stuff like this costs a lot more strokes than you think. It stems from a lack of experience on the course.

Strokes add up, no matter how far you are from the hole. As you know, if it's not already in the hole anything can happen.

[Dave2512]

But if you have a chip at all it's the result of a previous shot that you mishit/misjudged. If you chip it poorly it's simply two bad shots. Hit it well and you don't have that chip. Which is why I mentioned the relevance of handicap in my first post in this thread, your handicap is indicative of your overall skill not how far you sometimes hit the ball. Being closer to the hole is always going to make golf easier. That's why golfers struggle on long par 4's, that's why those holes have the hole handicaps they do, because the higher your handicap the more likely you will need strokes there.

[Lihu]

But if you have a chip at all it's the result of a previous shot that you mishit/misjudged. If you chip it poorly it's simply two bad shots. Hit it well and you don't have that chip. Which is why I mentioned the relevance of handicap in my first post in this thread, your handicap is indicative of your overall skill not how far you sometimes hit the ball. Being closer to the hole is always going to make golf easier. That's why golfers struggle on long par 4's, that's why those holes have the hole handicaps they do, because the higher your handicap the more likely you will need strokes there.

It was awful playing on both our parts as we were alternating shots. She's an 18 (playing on men's tees), and I'm roughly a 15. Together we made a 33 handicap. Fortunately for us, my son and nephew made up a 33 handicap from a 10 and a 12, and their coach and younger nephew also played to a 33 handicap from a scratch and a 20 handicap. Alternating shots is really tough when you don't play this way that often.

We had a fun time, but it was purely awful short game shots for me and my daughter. My Nephew's and son got OB, and jailed behind trees.

However, we played to a pace of about 1:25 per 9. POP was not an issue even with 6 in our group of whom made up the equivalent of three 33 handicap players.